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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-07-28 ad Hoc Haven Street Task Force MinutesVOLUME: I PAGES: 1 - 87 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS TOWN OF READING AD HOC 25 HAVEN STREET SALE TASK FORCE MEETING MINUTES Thursday, July 28, 1994 Berger Room Town Hall Reading, Massachusetts Commence: 6:30 p.m. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. Professional Shorthand Reporters 59 Temple Place Boston, Massachusetts 02111 617-542-0039 PRESENT: NAME Philip Pacino, as chairman William C. Brown Mollie Ziegler William Kennedy William Burditt Fred Van Magness Leonard Rucker James H. Blomley AFFILIATION Reading Municipal Light Department Citizen at Large Board of Assessors Business proprietor Selectman FinCom RMLD General Manager RMLD Assistant to General Manager 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to mind since the last meeting. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Based on that, we have gone through, in terms of the request for data, it seems like we have answered everything we had for RMLD. We still need let's recap where we are. We still need.input from town counsel on the bidding process. We really need probably Ted here for a half an hour at a session to be identified I think. We may get some more input on potential reuses that have surfaced to date.. We have at least RMLD's input. We don't know if the town has anything. In terms of restrictions of hours of operation, that is a CPDC issue. That would come over here under zoning, I would.imagine. That looks like it. We have made some significant progress on at least the things we needed answers to. Let's go back to our agenda. Secretary, welcome. We can now check you off. (Laughter.) MR. VAN MAGNESS: We need to get the requests to the additional data out. We agreed, or at least we broke two arms, and Jim? MR. RUCKER: We will get the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 letters out. The RMLD will be responsible for them. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sometime after Monday. MS. ZIEGLER: Can someone call Dick Howard and remind him? CHAIRMAN PACING: I will get in touch with Dick Howard on that and remind him for the next meeting. MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess maybe I ought to go that way then. Because we have got to talk about additional requests; right? CHAIRMAN PACINO: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And we talked, and maybe one of the best places to start is what do we want for uses, restrictions if any, and everybody was to go and collect three uses. Right? If I turn this this way, does that help everybody? Can you see all right? MR. RUCKER: Could I just ask a quick question? , CHAIRMAN PACING: Sure. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 6 6 7 8 9 10 11 17 18 19 20 21 MR. RUCKER: How much more do you want the RMLD involved? We have answered the questions we can. Do you want us to be at all future meetings, to be here and available, or do you care whether we're here? I would just like to know. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'll give you my take on it. I think you should be here. At least one of you should be here. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And I think there is a lot of involvement as we are going to go forward, because, you know, the appraisal request has to go out, and I thought maybe we were going to get a chance to take a look at that request for appraisal.. I don't know whether we are or we aren't, but. MR. RUCKER: I don't have any objections. I just wanted to ask the question so that in the future - MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. I am just thinking, though. We get that appraisal. We are going to have the RFP. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Yes. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think there is going to be some need for maybe collecting copies of previous drafts and all that kind of stuff, so. CHAIRMAN PACING: Bill, go ahead. MR. BURDITT: I think Phil represents the RMLD board. I don't know whether the light department needs to be here. I don't know if we can say Phil can get what is needed from the department from the board point of view. MR. BROWN: I am satisfied with what they have supplied us from their side. MR. BURDITT: If we want the department, I think we can get that from Phil to have the department come. Phil is the board, the light.board. But I don't know. It's what everybody else wants. CHAIRMAN PACING: My personal feeling is Len doesn't have to come to all the meetings. I am surprised to see him here tonight to be honest with you. I would like at least one of them to come. That is going to be our administrative support for this committee. It is going to be the department that is going to do DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the support and write the different documents that need to be written. That is my personal feeling. Mollie, do you have any personal thoughts? MS. ZIEGLER: I would like to see one of them. They don't both have to be here, and it doesn't have to be the same one each time. MR. KENNEDY: As opposed to either of them, what about someone more at our disposal that does this writing of reports as you said, someone with high technical, secretarial skills or someone that can still do this stuff, maybe bring back questions that we may have to these gentlemen and get answers, either through you or through that person? I don't really see them as necessary, but. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think you have somewhat of a philosophical decision to make. Do you want the process to move, or do you want the process to crawl? MR. BROWN: I want it to move. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think if we want it to move, the faster that we can carry out DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 9 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 things, the faster that we can get answers, or the faster we can get input, the better off we are going to be. I think that requires a higher level of horsepower to get the job done. Otherwise, we'll sit here and fester around, well, we don't have this answer, we'll ask for it next week. Next week will come. It is not really the way we asked this question. Could you go back and get this answer? We will be three weeks into this process. The rate payers are expecting us to move forward in this process, rather.than let it go its usual meandering way. MR. BROWN You convinced me, Fred. CHAIRMAN PACING: To add to that, I am the chairman. Even this past week, it just was a terrible week in my office. I really didn't have enough time. If you asked me to chase things down for you, I would have had a difficult time this week. We are all volunteers here. The department is paid I don't mean that derogatorily the department is paid to do things like this. MR. RUCKER: My interpretation of DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 what you have said is you want to make sure there is always a productive and efficient RMLD representative here to support the task force. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Senior manager. (Laughter.) MR. RUCKER: We also have productive junior people. MS. ZIEGLER: Can I ask our secretary, what is the turnover in getting copies of the minutes? MR. RUCKER: We bear the expense, the RMLD does. MS. ZIEGLER: If we are going to meet weekly, we really need the minutes weekly. MR. RUCKER: We will make those arrangements. MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN PACINO: Go ahead, Fred. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. We are talking about I think at this point potential reuse ideas. CHAIRMAN PACING: Right. I will give you my three first. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 11 i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: And I would like to, Mr. Chairman, if we can, no idea is a bad. idea, so all ideas go up. Okay? CHAIRMAN PACING: Right. Firs t of all, I see it as potential retail space down there, which would be similar to what now goe s on on the other side of the street. MR. VAN MAGNESS: All right. CHAIRMAN PACINO: I saw a potential office building, and the third one was a medical building. I don't know if that is really kind of covered in the office building or whether there is that much difference between the office building and the medical building. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. CHAIRMAN PACING: I have many ideas of what should not be up there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We are going to get those. I have some should nots, too. Do you have more than three? CHAIRMAN PACING: Just three. I was asked for three. That is what I.came up with. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Who would like DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2.4 to go next? MR. KENNEDY: I was thinking about the building itself, which is a one-story building and no basement, and I thought of perhaps, one, a daycare center, or a private nursery. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is that two? MR. KENNEDY: That is two. It is not easy to get three. And the third was some sort of a commercial venture, a franchise or something, like a Gymboree. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Do you want it added? We will add it and delete it later if we need to. Commercial venture? MR. KENNEDY: A setup, where they almost make a Tiny Tot Gymnasium. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is that another item? MR. KENNEDY: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: Is it like a Chuck E Cheese? MR. KENNEDY: Without the pizza. If you want pizza, you could come to my place. MS. ZIEGLER: It would be an DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 kind of like the idea of a funeral parlor, veterinarian, and a good hardware store. We don't have one in this town, having been in the business for a while. Well, when I see the chairman of the commerce shop in Stoneham at a hardware store, it leads me to believe we need a good one. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I missed one. Funeral parlor, hardware store, and? MR. BROWN: Veterinarian. I don't think it would be an overly traffic item. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Others? You did three? MR. BROWN: Yes. MR. BURDITT: I felt retail was probably the best. It is a retail area. I think we would be remiss if we didn't say something about the arts. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Arts? MR. BURDITT: Yes. I think we at least need to state that that is something we would consider. MR. BROWN: I think they are looking at the Parker right now. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 15 MR. BURDITT: They may very well be. That is a potential reuse idea that needs to be addressed. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What else? MR. BURDITT: And office 6 7 8 9 10 11 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 building. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Just to get an idea. Okay. Is that it? I had medical offices, so that is kind of like medical building. I also had retail, but with use restrictions. I also had a daycare center. I had a new one, nursing home or adult daycare. So that really was two more than anything else. MR. BROWN: Yes. Excellent. CHAIRMAN PACINO: In relation to that, do you go as far as nursing home or assisted care facility for those that don't quite need the nursing home? You don't go quite to that level? MR. BURDITT: It is not nearly big enough, the space constraints. MR. KENNEDY: The requirements might be pretty strict. CHAIRMAN PACINO: What I was DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2.0 21 22 23 24 thinking, it could be more than one layer. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I know. And I had medical clinic. What I was thinking about, versus a medical building, was we have a trust fund in town for a medical MR. BURDITT: Hospital? MS. ZIEGLER: Facility. MR. VAN MAGNESS: -Facility. MR. BURDITT: Hospital? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, hospital can be defined in probably a lot of different things, but I don't know. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Is that like the center, the healthcare center, is it in North Reading, or is it Wilmington? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Kind of a walk-in mini emergency room that could provide primary care on a walk-in basis. It might be, and I figured it was near the trains. Part of the things and I am not selling any one of them but things like daycare, nursery, I thought because of the MBTA, the drop off. MR. KENNEDY: That was my thought. People could leave their kids there, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 take the train, and come back, and pick up the kids and go. MR. BROWN: You forgot pick up a cup of coffee at Bill's place. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. Get coffee there. (Laughter.) CHAIRMAN PACINO: Mollie brings out an interesting idea. Under the zoning, kindergartens aren't allowed under that zoning. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We don't have kindergartens up there? MS. ZIEGLER: Nursery school. And a nursing home and a hospital take a special SPA. MR. KENNEDY: Well, it has been noted here. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Nursing home requires what? A special SPA? MS. ZIEGLER: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Does anybody after seeing the list have anything you would like to add to that? MR. BURDITT: I won't add a restaurant. We have enough restaurants in town. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 . 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KENNEDY: You don't know. It might help me. MR. BROWN: What the market will bear. (Laughter.) MR. VAN MAGNESS: None of these seem to be out of the permitted regulations or couldn't get around it without the freeing up of regulations or zoning, right, because that was part of our charter. MS. ZIEGLER: The private kindergarten might not go. It is SPA and residential areas, and it is definitely forbidden in industrial and business areas, so you probably couldn't get a variance from the board of appeals, but you might. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, you may rezone it. You could always create new zoning. MR. BURDITT: I'm not sure you will get a million dollars for a daycare facility or a nursery or a Tiny Tot Gym. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But we didn't want to say any of them were bad ideas. MR. BURDITT: I understand. I DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 understand. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We are just saying they are all ideas. MR. KENNEDY: What do you think you are going to get a million dollars for? MR. BURDITT: I think you could for retail space. I think it is possible for an office building. If well, I think those are the highest potential revenue makers, much more than just about anything else we have on the list. I think if we are going to have an evaluation, I think that the evaluation two years ago was for $810,000. If we have to get more than that, we either don't have a bid, if we want to get upwards of a million dollars. What do we do? MS. ZIEGLER: That appraisal was mine. Commercial properties have dropped since then. MR. BURDITT: They are on their way back up. CHAIRMAN PACING: Why would not a private school go in there? MR. KENNEDY: Schools are allowed. DORIS M. JONES &_ASSOCIATES, INC. 20 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 MR. MR. MR. MR. listed here. That the BROWN: Are they allowed? KENNEDY: Yes. BROWN: Okay. BURDITT: We haven't even was one of the that was MR. VAN MAGNESS: Drugstore? MR. BURDITT: No. The private school'administrative offices-or something, the second inquiry we had. MS. ZIEGLER: Environmental agency, wasn't it? MR. RUCKER: Environmental school. MR. BURDITT: Environmental school administrative offices. MR. KENNEDY: Did we put drugstore 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 in? MR. VAN MAGNESS: We did not put drugstore. That is really retail space. Just thinking about this, we had our mission statement, in terms of maximizing proceeds to the rate payers, encourage inquiries, be least restrictive, enhance the area, be commercially sensitive. When we went down DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 through this list, we said which of these things would enhance the area. Maybe they will all enhance the area, except for a few that will not enhance the area. I guess if you went down through this list, let's take the items one at a time. Would any of these not enhance the general area as you look at them? CHAIRMAN PACINO: The only one I question would be the movie theater. I really question in my own mind what value that would have to the area. MS. ZIEGLER: It would give the kids someplace to go, to spend their money at the drugstore. CHAIRMAN PACING: How would that help? MS. ZIEGLER: Get pizza across the street. MR. BROWN: It does bring the people to buy coffee. I am just trying to get you more business. MR. KENNEDY: Thanks, Bill. (Laughter.) MR. BURDITT: That goes along with DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 what they are trying to do for the youth in the community. I mean that is, you know. MR. BROWN: One thing I didn't throw in, I don't know if it would be viable, would be a bowling alley. I don't know if it would be economically viable. What is that, Bill? MR. BURDITT: A youth center. MS. ZIEGLER: Too small. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Anything you would think would not enhance the area? Can we go ahead? CHAIRMAN PACINO: I don't see how a movie theater could possibly enhance the area, to be honest with you. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is there getting to be some consensus that we can say that might not enhance the area? There is a disagreement. CHAIRMAN PACINO: That's fine. This is a democracy. MR. BROWN: It is a republic. CHAIRMAN PACINO: A republic? MR. BROWN: Yes. (Laughter.) DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KENNEDY: I would like to know more about adult daycare. Are you still on the movie theater? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. MR. KENNEDY: I don't know if we will see a movie theater there. CHAIRMAN PACINO: But do you think it will enhance the area? That is the question. I question whether it would enhance the area, a movie theater, in that particular area. MR. BURDITT: Perhaps. Is it a deterrent? Are you going to have parking enough? MR. KENNEDY: Movie theaters are practically built on a farm to have so much parking. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So that might be an A? MR. KENNEDY: Yes. MR. BURDITT: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You said adult daycare? MR. KENNEDY: Is this the elderly? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. MR. KENNEDY: Just as one may drop off their child, they may drop off their adult, their elderly mother or father or someone. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The elderly segment of the population is getting to be a more service-oriented industry as we are going forward, because the population is aging. MR. KENNEDY: There is more care demanded. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Because you have two-income households and everything else. People need to deal what do they do with a parent that is sick? They can't leave them at home. MR. KENNEDY: Does something exist at the senior center? Do they see themselves fulfilling that? MS. ZIEGLER: There used to be a drop off up by the Unitarian Church by EMARC or one of those. Is it still there? MR. BROWN: No. MS. ZIEGLER: There is one in Stoneham now. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14' 15 16 17 18 19 20 MR. BROWN: I think the one is in conjunction with New England Memorial. MR. BURDITT: I think we talked with Pearl Street people. MS. ZIEGLER: There is one up on North Main Street. MR. BROWN: I don't know if they still have it, Mollie. I don't know if there is. MR. BURDITT: I think we did talk about that kind of a situation at Pearl Street with the people coming in there. I don't remember what that was. MR. BROWN: I think you are right, Bill. MR. BURDITT: I don't know if that is part of the deal we have. MR. KENNEDY: Is that an EMARC situation? That is retarded citizens? That won't enhance the area. MR. VAN MAGNESS: This is not intended to be that is retarded? MS. ZIEGLER: EMARC is. MR. BURDITT: Adult daycare wasn't. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Just nongeneric? MR. BURDITT: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: Andover or North Andover senior citizens center has that type of a center, and there is a nurse and all kinds of liabilities involved. MR_ VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Do you want me to move on if that is the only one? It sounded like it. MS. ZIEGLER: I think nursing home might not fit in. MR. BURDITT: There are a lot of things that I don't think would fit in. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Would it enhance the area? would. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think it CHAIRMAN PACINO: I don't think a nursing home would enhance the area either. MR. BURDITT: I don't think.a nursery would, because I think it is too commercial of an area. MR. KENNEDY: The nursery? DORIS M. JONES &-ASSOCIATES, INC. 27 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: The nursery, a Tiny Tot Gym. I think that is a very commercial, very heavily-trafficked area. I think it is dangerous to try to have those type of facilities. MR. VAN MAGNESS: See, I don't look at it that way. My take on it is that it has a lot that doesn't have to be a parking lot, but could be a play area, and the drop off doesn't have to be on Haven Street. It could be on the back street, whatever street that is. MR. BURDITT: Green Street. MR. VAN MAGNESS: There is no reason for the kids to be anywhere other than the building and the play yard. It could have a nice fence. It could be a nice situation. MR. BROWN: There is one right in the middle of Cummings Industrial Park MR. BURDITT: Is there really? CHAIRMAN PACING: Yes. MR. BROWN: They have a very nice one set up over there. MR. BURDITT: It just scares me. MR. KENNEDY: Nurseries are in the centers of businesses. Why not something? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: In the center of Reading? MR. KENNEDY: In the center of Reading. MR. BURDITT: I don't disagree it is close to the train station. I thought it a great corollary use with the train station. MR. KENNEDY: That is what I felt. It gives the mother or father, the commuter, less time away from the child. They get off the train, go right across the street, pick up their child, and then they are united again. I thought it would be that would make it economically appealing. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You and I were both on that bus, weren't we, you and I? MR. KENNEDY: That was yours as well. MR. BROWN: The parking could be included in the daycare. If they have to pay the MBTA,,they might as well pay these people. MR. BURDITT: There is not going to be parking. That is the play area. We have done away with the parking. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: It is an area that doesn't necessarily require a lot of on-site parking. MR. BURDITT: True. There won't be any. You are going to have a play area. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You are doing good thinking. MR. BROWN: After seven o'clock, it would probably be vacant anyway. MR. KENNEDY: That's true. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Here is a wild idea. Tear the whole thing down and make the whole thing a parking lot. That is another reuse. MR. BURDITT: No, no, no. We thought about potential revenues. MR. KENNEDY: Not a good idea, but an idea. MR. BURDITT: Not a good idea. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We are losing steam here. Are any of these items not commercially sensitive? I am going to the negative rather than the positive. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 CHAIRMAN PACING: How do you define commercially sensitive? What is commercially sensitive? MR. VAN MAGNESS: It is on our mission statement. I say something that didn°t detract from the commercial aspects of the area. MS. ZIEGLER: Another hardware store. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, I think, you know, let me throw out some things. What if it became an adult cinema? What if it became a tanning salon? What if it became a pornographic bookstore? And my mind is in the gutter. I am thinking of some things that are obscene. MR. BURDITT: If it met all the licensing requirements. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We will think about that in terms of restrictions we might want on the 'site. MR. KENNEDY: A retail space that is successful is great. A retail space that nobody is in is an empty building. That is not great. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KENNEDY: So in that sense, any of these things that are successful would be fine. A movie theater that is successful would be fine if it wasn't showing Deep Throat or something or porno or something. So that is a good point. A commercial venture that wasn't selling adult material. So it would be something to try to zone out. MS. ZIEGLER: How do we restrict that? MR. BROWN: You can't. MR. BURDITT: No. MR. KENNEDY: Hire a religious fanatic. MR. BROWN: Stonehedge tried it. They were not successful. MR. BURDITT: You can set rules that you can't have adult entertainment within a half a mile of a religious MS. ZIEGLER: Center, church? MR. BURDITT: Center, church, something,' and that takes care of the entire town, I think. I think any part in town is, has a church within a half a mile. That can be done. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 32 •:t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KENNEDY: It seems economically viable. If the video store has adult videos MR. VAN MAGNESS: As you start in the process though, are you finding there is not anything on this list that wouldn't be detrimental to the commercial nature of that area? I think I am starting to feel that. MR. KENNEDY: I think it all sounds good. I will await the results of the survey. I don't know what I am going to get back on that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: There isn't anything here right now as you look at it that you think would not be commercially sensitive? MR. BURDITT: That is objectionable? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. MR. BURDITT: There is nothing objectionable. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Would a bowling alley enhance the area down there, though? MR. BROWN: I don't think it is DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 33 financially feasible. I just threw it out, Phil. We had two at one time in Reading. In fact, we had three. It got taken over by car dealerships, one, and the other is where CVS is now and the town parking lot. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Are you ready to f~ 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 move on? MR. BROWN: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Silence means r tacit approval. away. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Okay. Tacit MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Next thing, restrictions if any. Are we ready to deal with that as a topic? MR. BROWN: I would like to throw up a question on that, Fred, because we have a person I believe you have some restrictions,, don't you, Bill, on your lot? MS. ZIEGLER: MBTA restrictions. MR. BROWN: When the town passed the deed on, wasn't there some restrictions on that property? You had to provide MR. KENNEDY: A few things. I had DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to provide access for the train. MS. ZIEGLER: But that was passed on by the MBTA. MR. BROWN: From us to him. Has that hindered you any? MR. KENNEDY: Not really. No. MR. BROWN: Okay. MR. KENNEDY: For what I do, it works out well. The more people that are hanging around, the better. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess these are desired restrictions. I will get the group thinking. Hours of operation? CHAIRMAN PACING: Hours of operation? I wouldn't want to see access on to Haven Street. That would be one of my restrictions. I think that would be a problem. MR. BURDITT: It depends on what the MR. KENNEDY: Automobile access? CHAIRMAN PACINO: Right. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Driveway access? CHAIRMAN PACINO: I want no DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 driveway access from Haven Street. I see the traffic, all the traffic down there, and the way people park. MR. BROWN: I don't know, Phil. It would depend on the operation, my feeling. CHAIRMAN PACINO: That is just my feeling. MR. BROWN: If you came in Haven Street, went out Green Street. MR. KENNEDY: Let's say it is Brooks Drug, and you lived on Green Street, you sure would want them to be coming in on Haven Street. You wouldn't want all of that traffic on Green Street. It would be more appropriate in fact probably from Haven Street. ,MR. VAN MAGNESS: You would lose parking spaces. MR. BROWN: the other, would be MR. KENNEDY: In one direction, out May be a compromise? MR. BROWN: Yes. MR. KENNEDY: Sure. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Something to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 36 talk about. We don't have to decide it yet. Do we? MS. ZIEGLER: You talk about hours of operation. MR. BURDITT: Hours of operation are MS. ZIEGLER: We have town bylaws on hours of operation. You can't operate between midnight and six. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So we would state that. MS. ZIEGLER: That is a town bylaw. That is a restriction already there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Do we need to state it, so there is no misunderstanding in terms of the bidding, so they understand what the restrictions are? MR. BURDITT: On the bid you would need to do that. MR. BROWN: I think we put it in accordance with town bylaws. MR. BURDITT: Yes. Everything is within town bylaws, not just hours of operation. MR. BROWN: Yes. And I think DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 restrictions within the zoning bylaws. MR. BURDITT: All restrictions. For instance, we don't pick up rubbish. There are all kinds of things. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. MR. BURDITT: I mean if we say that restrictions are all in accordance with the town bylaws MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Everybody happy with that? MR. BROWN: That's fine. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Take this one off? MS. ZIEGLER: Do we want to start saying we don't want certain things in there? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. To decide we are making a list to brainstorm. CHAIRMAN PACING: I would not want to see a gas station on that site. Is that MR. BURDITT: I don't think you can. CHAIRMAN PACING: Does that come under this? MR. BURDITT: I think that is DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 already covered under the use of the MS. ZIEGLER: You can't by zoning. MR. BURDITT: Yes. MR. BROWN: It is allowable, Phil. MS. ZIEGLER: No, it is not yes, it is. Something else is not MR. BROWN: It is written a gas station is allowable. MR. BLOMLEY: Yes. It is. MR. BURDITT: Is it? MR. BLOMLEY: Yes. MR. BROWN: If he is going to have to shut down at ten o'clock, he is not going to MR. BURDITT: All do, with one exception. CHAIRMAN PACINO: You should say. all in accordance with zoning bylaws. Does the word bylaws cover the general and the zoning? MS. ZIEGLER: There can't be a car wash. That is taken care of. There can't be an auto graveyard. We don't want a commercial parking lot there, do we? MR. BURDITT: Adjacent to the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 building. MS. ZIEGLER: Commercial parking lot? Pay? MR. BURDITT: Well, we have a parking lot. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What if someone wanted to put in a three-story commercial stack them parking lot there, $2 an hour? MS. ZIEGLER: It is allowed. It is allowed. Can we restrict it? Probably not, I guess. MR. BROWN: Probably not, without going and changing. MR. BURDITT: I guess we could restrict anything we want if we go for zoning bylaw changes. MS. ZIEGLER: That is allowed in Business B. MR. MS. in this RFP that i MR. change Business B MR. BURDITT: ZIEGLER: s allowed BURDITT: VAN MAGN I understand. Can we deny anything under Business B? No. But we can ESS: Let me put you DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 40 back. 8 9 10 11 12 . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: in town meeting. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let me put you back to the mission statement that we were given. The task force will meet as needed and is charged with the following task: One, review current zoning and/or other restrictions on use. Two, determine the optimal and acceptable reuses of the property. Three, determine any proposed changes in zoning and/or other proposed restrictions. Four, recommend conditions of sale to be included in the RFP. And five, after bids are received, review the proposals and determine the best proposal to recommend to the board of selectmen and the RMLD board. There were some very, very specific things that we were asked to do. MR. BROWN: I think in a sense we are reviewing the zoning right now as we are talking about it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. That is why I wanted to get you back to thinking about what we were asked to do. MS. ZIEGLER: No "adult" DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 41 entertainment facility. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No idea is a bad idea; right? MS. ZIEGLER: What? MR. VAN MAGNESS: No idea is a bad idea. MR. BROWN: That's right. MS. ZIEGLER: Adult in quotes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What? MS. ZIEGLER: Yes. You have it in quotes. Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I just went through an extensive contract negotiation, thousands of drafts and redrafts, and the Washington attorneys drove me bananas with words the first time they are used capitalized in quotation marks and then that becomes a defined term. Oh, geez. (Laughter.) MR. VAN MAGNESS: Other desired restrictions? MR. BURDITT: We said no gas station; right? I mean we did mention a couple. No gas station. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CHAIRMAN PACINO: Right. No gas station. MR. KENNEDY: No car wash. MS. ZIEGLER: That is not allowed in B. CHAIRMAN PACINO: What else? MS. ZIEGLER: Do you want sale of new or used autos? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is that a permitted use? MS. ZIEGLER: That is permitted, and a repair garage. CHAIRMAN PACING: Maybe we should just say no automotive uses. MR. BURDITT: Yes. Yes. CHAIRMAN PACING: You don't want to see it as a used car lot or car dealership, and that also takes out the commercial parking lot, too. MR. BROWN: Automotive-related uses. That takes care of a gas station. MR. BLOMLEY: Would that restrict an auto parts store? MS. ZIEGLER: That is retail. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 43 MR. BURDITT: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: It allows wholesale business. It is not big enough for a wholesale business company, though. CHAIRMAN PACINO: You could have a hotel or motel. I don't want to see it become a motel or motel. I'm not sure how they would do it. MR. BURDITT: No tell motel right across from the train station. MR. KENNEDY: Meet at the metro and cruise over. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The selectmen would like it if they could get a room tax. MR. BURDITT: 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day.. How often do the trains run? (Laughter.) MR. KENNEDY: 42 times a day. MR. VAN MAGNESS: There is a man that.could keep count. MR. KENNEDY: That's right. MS. ZIEGLER: Shake, rattle and roll. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No full glasses DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 on the table in between times. (Further laughter.) MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Keep thinking. You are working hard. Keep thinking. What things wouldn't you want there? MS. ZIEGLER: Commercial amusements? MR. video do you wa MS. MR. MR. call those things. MS. no. VAN MAGNESS: Do you want a nt a jukebox video arcade? ZIEGLER: No. KENNEDY: No. VAN MAGNESS: Whatever you ZIEGLER: Pinball machines, MR. BURDITT: That is a licensing thing that wouldn't be licensed. 'MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why wouldn't it be licensed? MR. BURDITT: I have never seen anything like that licensed in the town. MS. _ZIEGLER: A couple of years ago MR. BURDITT: It was contested. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KENNEDY: Burger King wanted one. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What do you call it? MS. ZIEGLER: It is commercial amusements, SPS. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What does that mean? MR. BROWN: That means special permit by selectmen. MR. BURDITT: I told you you don't have to worry about it. CHAIRMAN PACING: But you don't know. MS. ZIEGLER: You don't know in 10 years. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Five new selectmen in, and it could become a reality. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You are working hard. More things you don't want? MS. ZIEGLER: Do we want any manufacturing as an accessory use? MR. BURDITT: I wouldn't vote against it. I don't see why not. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 46 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: The town could use some industry if it means jobs. It means more jobs per square foot maybe. Why not? MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. That is allowed. CHAIRMAN PACINO: I would hate to see it become like one of these used storage buildings or something like that, a storage building. MS. ZIEGLER: That is allowed. MR. KENNEDY: It wouldn't make much money. It is too good a site for it. MR. BROWN: Most of them are real backwards operations anyways. MR. KENNEDY: Where the.new light building is going, there is enough old buildings there. And then there is that place where Frugal Fannies is. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Do we want to make restrictions there can be no biological or environmentally hazardous material stored there? MR. BURDITT: I think by law you probably would eliminate anything like that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't know. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 What if somebody wanted to come in and MR. KENNEDY: That is not in any bylaws currently. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Only on the PRD. I have it stuffed in on one of them. MS. ZIEGLER: That was a special addition. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But is that something you know, can we MR. BURDITT: I think you need special zoning and stuff. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't know. MS. ZIEGLER: You can't have laboratories there. That is not in Zone B. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What if someone wanted to store nerve gas? MR. BURDITT: Atomic waste? I don't know. CHAIRMAN PACINO! If you have a biotech, I mean a biotech, one of the things they could have is they could do nuclear experiments. MR. BURDITT: But that is only authorized at the landfill area. We would have to change the PRD. I doubt very much we would do DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 48 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that for that little corner. CHAIRMAN PACINO: If you went and had a municipal reuse on that piece of property, which we could do, you could potentially have a biotech that could come on that property. MR. BURDITT: It is not part of the PRD. It is municipal reuse. But I don't think it is part of the PRD. The town would have to change that to a PRD°. MS. ZIEGLER: It can't. There can't be a planned unit development there. It is against Business B. There is not enough land. You have to have so many acres for that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Phil, what about if we take a five-minute stretch? CHAIRMAN PACING: Sure. (A recess was then taken.) MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's think about where we are. We are roaring right along here. Let's see what we have ahead of us. If we can't think of more desired restrictions, that is okay. We can add to the list. One of the things we were also charged with is determine any proposed changes to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 zoning. I think we should start to touch on that subject tonight. If we could get through some of that and set our agenda for the next meeting, this is what Phil would like to do, set our agenda for the next meeting, and the next meeting we go through the details. That would be enough to cover probably tonight, Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN PACINO: Yes. That would be fine. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is there anything more here. MR. KENNEDY: I say no. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have one "no." Silence means? MR. BURDITT: No. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Tacit approval. Here we go. MR. BROWN: Zoning. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Proposed changes to zoning. MS. ZIEGLER: I think we need to look at the zoning map first, which is what we were asking for last time, was a detailed blowup. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 50 J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's see. Do we have that? Do we have that on our actions? MR. BURDITT: Yes. To the right. Well, we have current zoning. MR. VAN MAGNESS: It is right, there right over Phil's head, next to the bottom line, CHAIRMAN PACING: Need more detailed zoning map of specific area. MS. ZIEGLER: I am sure town meeting won't go for spot zoning MR. BURDITT: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: if the whole area is B, but if there is a mix, then maybe we can't. I don't know. I think we have got to wait for the CPDC to be here. MR. VAN MAGNESS: A question: can this site be a PRD candidate? MS. ZIEGLER: No. It is not big enough. MR. BROWN: Eight acres. Eight acres. Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: A good question to ask, and a great answer. Can it be a DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22, 23 24 municipal reuse site? A building reuse in terms of rezoning it? The same with I think wasn't Pearl Street MR. BURDITT: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: rezoned something similar to that? MR. BURDITT: I believe so. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Could that be done to this piece of property, too? MR. BROWN: I think that was eight acres. MR. BURDITT: Was it? MR. BROWN: No. Whatever the restriction was, I think it applied to Pearl Street, and that was the purpose of it. I don't think we came into it at all on the fire station. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess one of the questions you start to look at, when you look at all of the MS. ZIEGLER: Look at the next page. MR. VAN MAGNESS: potential options here, is there something that would force you out of Business B and into a different DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 category? Or maybe a new category? Maybe we we don't have a ,Business D. MR. BURDITT: Again that is spot zoning. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That is spot zoning for this piece of property. MR. BROWN: And you can't do it MR. VAN MAGNESS: When you look at Business B, is there something in Business B? MR. BURDITT: When you get back to all the uses. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You are back to spot zoning. MR. BURDITT: What on that list of all of the uses that we said we desire are not applicable to Business B? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Good question. MS. ZIEGLER: Under Business B, and under industrial uses, it says you cannot do computer services in there. CHAIRMAN PACING: Right. MS. ZIEGLER: But what does that mean in an industrial, you know,.is it make DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 stuff? Or provide services? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why is that a restriction anyway? MS. ZIEGLER: I don't know. it says you can't do it in a Business B. MR. VAN MAGNESS: It doesn't make sense. MS. ZIEGLER: What is the difference between consumer services? MR. BURDITT: That is an industrial use? MS. ZIEGLER: It is an industrial use. MR. BURDITT: Does that mean making computers? MS. ZIEGLER: I don't know. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why couldn't you make computers, a small assembly operation? CHAIRMAN PACINO: If you looked at the first one, R & D, an R & D situation is out. MR. BURDITT: We said that for labs anyway. Isn't that labs? CHAIRMAN PACING: If you had a Digital, assuming they survive, if, or somebody DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 like that, if they wanted to come in, I don't think you could put them in that building. MR. BURDITT: What does industrial mean? Define industrial versus business. MS. ZIEGLER: That's what we don't know. We need our MR. BURDITT: We need CPDC. MR. BROWN: And Ted Cohen going with it, Ted Cohen, our town counsel. MR. BURDITT: I think we need more definition. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Are we at a point we can't put anything in here because we are out of data? MS. ZIEGLER: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No more operations to process? CHAIRMAN PACING: I think we are out of data. MR. BURDITT: We need to define the difference between industrial uses and business uses. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is there anything on that list you want to see as a zoning DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 55 change? MR. BURDITT: I think there are a lot of industrial uses, depending on what we mean by industrial uses. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 MS. ZIEGLER: I brought one of them up. What if a Honeywell or a Wang or somebody wanted to come in. Does that mean because they are a computer, they can't come in, a software company as a computer service? CHAIRMAN PACING: As a general thing, you could say more potential industrial use as a general statement, not getting specific as to what is specifically going to be on the site, just a general statement. If we are going to propose zoning, it would be to look at more industrial use on the site. MS. ZIEGLER: That building might be suitable for some small company making something in there. CHAIRMAN PACING: Let's go to Bill. MR. KENNEDY: I suppose we could say let's say we could make any changes we wanted, what would they be, and work from there, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 and then find out? MS. ZIEGLER: But we don't know what R & D and computer services under industrial uses means. Maybe it would fit under consumer services, business services. MR. BURDITT: We couldn't have a public utility in there. MS. ZIEGLER: That was a municipal use. MR. BURDITT: Well, I don't know. I don't know what a lot of stuff MR. BROWN: Continental Television is sitting down on Business B. MS. ZIEGLER: That is Business B down there? MR. BROWN: I would imagine. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Now you have a drycleaning establishment in the back parking lot in back of Atlantic. That is presumably Business B. It says here drycleaning.plant isn't allowed. MS. ZIEGLER: He has been there 48 23 years. 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Grandfathered, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 57 1 2 3 4 5 5 7 huh? MR. BURDITT: We need CPDC to help us with this. MS. ZIEGLER: We can't do any more on that. We are just wasting time. MR. BROWN: I think CPDC and town counsel to give us. MR. BURDITT: I would first like to go with CPDC, and town counsel when it comes time to wrapping the whole thing up. MS. ZIEGLER: We have some questions about - CHAIRMAN PACINO: Right. MS. ZIEGLER: high bid. MR. BURDITT: That is when I say that is wrapping it up. I think we have open questions, and I think we have more open questions for CPDC, and then we can start to wrap this thing up. MS. ZIEGLER: We want to invite Jonathan Edwards. MR. BURDITT: We could have Jonathan. CHAIRMAN PACING: Let's focus on DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the proposed changes. Then we will get to the next step. That is really going to the next step. MS. ZIEGLER: We don't know what we are going to do. We don't know the definitions of some of this stuff. CHAIRMAN PACINO: We said we have a general statement up there. We would potentially like some more potential industrial use. MR. BURDITT: We think. We are not sure. MR. KENNEDY: We don't know what that is. MR. BURDITT: We don't know what we are at right now. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have that recorded. Is there anything else that comes to mind, even though you are not educated enough on it? Is there anything else that hits you? MR. KENNEDY: Maybe a private kindergarten. CHAIRMAN PACINO: A private kindergarten is not allowed right now. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. If I spelled it right. MR. KENNEDY: I would like to know what combined service use is. Do we need CPDC for that? CHAIRMAN PACING: I think we need CPDC. MR. KENNEDY: It is not allowed under Business A, B, C or industrial, so it must be bad. MS. ZIEGLER: Look at the heading. MR. BROWN: Only allowed in residential. CHAIRMAN PACING: And only by special permit. MR. BROWN: We had a gal up in the neighborhood that was making interior decorations for Ethan Allen. She was running it out of her home. MS. ZIEGLER: This is under the heading of public and quasi public uses. That's CHAIRMAN PACING: So let's throw that out. What about residential use? Do you DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 60 f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 see that as a possibility, a general idea? MR. VAN MAGNESS: An apartment building? CHAIRMAN PACINO: An apartment building. MR. BURDITT: Yes. That's a possibility. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I had condos. If somebody bought that and made it into a quadrant, four quadrants. MS. ZIEGLER: Have you seen the prices of condos? They are way down. 50,000. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But you never know. CHAIRMAN PACINO: You never know. MR. KENNEDY: Prices of everything are way down. MS. ZIEGLER: But I mean some have come.through on the sales in that Woburn paper today, 54,000 on Main Street. CHAIRMAN PACING: You don't know. If the market turns around, they will be looking for sure. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I feel energy DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 61 here. I am not getting ideas. MR. BROWN: The thing that bothers me about any potential changes in zoning is the timing with town. meeting. It is going to take a year to go through town meeting CHAIRMAN PACING: I would anticipate we would be back in the fall. MS. ZIEGLER: No. You need public hearing times. MR. BROWN: You have public hearings. MS. ZIEGLER: Is that six weeks? Sixty days? MR. BROWN: The warrant closes in September, Phil, for the November town meeting, so. MR. BURDITT: You can still have it close. You can have something on the warrant and have public hearings after that prior to town meeting. Have something on the warrant. MR. BROWN: I am just thinking of the history running, Bill, has been MR. BURDITT: I don't disagree with you. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BROWN: We want to get this building sold as quickly as possible. MS. ZIEGLER: Town meeting has changed. MR. BROWN: Yes. It has. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Keep thinking. MR. BROWN: That's my only feeling about it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: It's a good point. MR. KENNEDY: That first line, the industrial uses, as you look at this Business B, everything is allowed except, you know, the private kindergartens and some of the other things that were mentioned except for the tourist or trailer camp, which I don't think anybody wants, and the auto graveyard, that is a no. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is there a thought process that might say that in the RFP process if there is a change in zoning required by the high bidder that we would entertain attempting it? MR. BROWN: Yes. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 63 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 MS. ZIEGLER: If it fits into 2 these things, yes. 3 MR. VAN MAGNESS: If it fits 4 within these categories. Therefore, you don't necessarily have to go forward with changing the 5 zoning. But you say that, you know, you will 7 look at that favorably for potential changing. That could then be done before, you know, you can get a P and S contingent upon rezoning. If the rezoning doesn't happen, the P and S dies, and you go back to the second bidder. That is a way to circumvent the process. MR. BURDITT: The timing. Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The timing issue. MR. BROWN: Manufacturing and industrial is used, is allowed as an accessory use. MS. ZIEGLER: What does that mean? MR. BROWN: He could be making his own computers to sell on the spot, and that's MR. BURDITT: We need some MR. BROWN: Interpretation. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 64 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: Right. MR. KENNEDY: There was that building in Wilmington, that bank at the corner of West Street and 129. That was empty for quite a while. It was looked at for various things. It became a Cellular One. That is a communication facility. You can look at it that way. MR. BROWN: I think they are selling from there. I don't think it is manufacturing. MR. KENNEDY: What does communication facility mean? It depends on how you want to play with it. It is not allowed under Business B. If Cellular One wanted to buy that building MS. ZIEGLER: They might have been able to, if it is just a sales office. MR. BURDITT: We need interpretation. MR. KENNEDY: What they want to do with the building. Maybe they want to do more. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Could we do put zoning change as desired through RFP DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 65 .t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 process? MR. BURDITT: For desired use. Yes. MR. KENNEDY: Most of these industrial uses wouldn't have a negative impact, where on another page we said do any of these have a negative impact. We said no. How about these industrial uses? Would any of them have a negative impact? Well, some of them may. But maybe the drycleaning plant would. That was an easy one. MR. BURDITT: MR. KENNEDY: would. Public utilities, I another one of those there MR. BURDITT: MR. VAN MAGN Yes. And open storage didn't want to see no, Jim? Neither do they. ESS: I don't buy enough coffee. MR. KENNEDY: gas for the heat. MR. BROWN: Have to convert to They did in their new building. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The cheapies. They can't even afford their prices. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KENNEDY: Pre MR. VAN MAGNESS: here. It won't get back. Jimmy that. Anything else, or are you you want more information? MR. BROWN: I do. information. tty warm here. Ernie is*not wouldn't allow at a point that More MR. VAN MAGNESS: Consensus? MR. BURDITT: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: Yes. MR. KENNEDY: This is good, in that we want more information. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's revisit. Let's make sure we did what we wanted to do. We said we wanted to review the data requests, come up with any additional action items. We did the responses of what we had. We developed options for reuse in terms of reuse and restrictions. We have a secretary, welcome Judy. We got the - request we weren't too successful on this, we have got some more action to do on that. All and all, I think you owe yourselves some congratulations. I think-you.did a lot tonight. MR. KENNEDY: Bravo. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 next meeting. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's talk about MR. BROWN: Before that MR. KENNEDY: It is the hardest part, scheduling the next meeting. MR. BROWN: I would kind of like to see town counsel come in in conjunction with CPDC. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Let's do for instance similar to the next step, which we are defining right now. This is for the next meeting. Okay? We need to set a date. MR. BROWN: I am open most any time, as long as I know ahead of time, or I may end up working six-thirty to three in the morning. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I am on vacation, even as we speak. I will only be here next Tuesday night. I could be here Monday night. CHAIRMAN PACINO: off the record. (Discussion off the record.). MR. VAN MAGNESS: Now we have an agenda for the next meeting? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CHAIRMAN PACING: I think again we ought to review the data requests. That would be one of the things. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have CPDC particularly; right? CHAIRMAN PACING: Yes. I will contact Jim, will you talk to Jonathan? MS. ZIEGLER: He is on vacation. MR. BLOMLEY: Yes. CHAIRMAN PACINO: He is on vacation? MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think he is in this week. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Between now and the next meeting, and I will call Mr. Howard to get him in here. MR. BURDITT: And Bill thinks we should get Mr. Cohen in here, too. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Agenda, you want to review the data requests, all that kind of stuff. That is going to be key. CHAIRMAN PACINO: That is going to be very much key in that meeting. MR. KENNEDY: The CPDC DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 next meeting, could you bring three or four or five of those markers for us? MR. BLOMLEY: Sure. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I am trying to get your actions here to see what we have to do. Agenda is still CHAIRMAN PACINO: One of the things I will talk, call Peter, if he knows of any reuses. I noticed that kind of an item is open with him. I will call Peter on that on the reuse. I don't know if you want to do it, Bill. MR. BURDITT: Go right ahead. MS. ZIEGLER: Peter is the town manager. CHAIRMAN PACING: Right. Town counsel, what do we want to do with town counsel? Let's do we want MR. BROWN: I would kind of like to have him here. Really I think the zoning issues and the whole thing as a preliminary basis. If we need him down the road, yes, I am sure he can come in. What can we do on zoning? What is the legal restrictions of spot zoning and so forth? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 71 . 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CHAIRMAN PACINO: Those items, those questions would be more answered by the CPDC. MR. BROWN: I will defer at this time then. Fine. MR. BURDITT: Yes. CHAIRMAN PACING: The question in bringing Ted in would be to talk about the big process itself. That is an issue outstanding. Do we want to do that now, as the first item at the next meeting? Go ahead. MR. KENNEDY: Is that what was raised when his name was brought up? When his name was brought up were we talking about the bid process or MS. ZIEGLER: High bid. MR. KENNEDY: The high bid. That's right. MS. ZIEGLER: Do we have to take the high. MR. BURDITT: Drawing the RFP I think is when we would want Ted. MS. ZIEGLER: I think we ought to know what is the definition of high bid. Is it DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 72 5 6 7 8 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the best use, is it money involved, or can we add other things to it to determine the high bid? MR. BROWN: That may do away with a.lot of the other things we are thinking of right then and there. MR. KENNEDY: You are right, Bill. It is right in the mission. It is central to that. CHAIRMAN PACING: Do you want Ted at the next meeting, or hold Ted back? MR. BURDITT: I think we can ask Peter to ask Ted, or ask Ted the question we have, and he could just come up with a response. MR. KENNEDY: Ted's answer. CHAIRMAN PACING: That's fine. MR. BURDITT: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: You will take care of that? You will call Peter? CHAIRMAN PACING: Sure. I will call I am going to call Peter anyway on the reuse. MR. BURDITT: I think you know what the questions are: what do we mean by high bid? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 73 f. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BROWN: Under the procurement act. MR. BURDITT: Yes. CHAIRMAN PACINO: MR. VAN MAGNESS: actions. Right. We are working You have the CPDC, which you rea things. This is really going to want him. Okay. Working on on agenda, too. lly have some be Edwards. We MR. BURDITT: And Howard. MR. VAN MAGNESS: He is a member of the committee. MS. ZIEGLER: Another agenda item, I think it is about time we look at an appraisal. That takes awhile to do. You just can't get one overnight. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We aren't going to look at it. MS. ZIEGLER: I mean to get it done. MR. BURDITT: I think we have to define the missions, the use we are entertaining. MS. ZIEGLER: And the restrictions. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 74 MR. BURDITT: Before we ask for an appraisal. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 CHAIRMAN PACINO: Under what we have been charged, the task, review the current zoning and other restrictions on use. We have kind of pretty much done that. Determine the optimal and acceptable reuses of the property. We have kind of done that, too. Determine any proposed changing in zoning and other proposed restrictions. We have done that. We will get more input from the CPDC to finish that off. Then we come down to recommend conditions of sale to be included in the RFP. That's the fourth step. And then after the bids are in, to review the proposals. I think we have got to do, somebody has got to direct me if I am wrong, step four, before we go off and do the appraisals. MS. ZIEGLER: Because the appraisal will come back as the highest and best use. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Well, that's MR. BURDITT: But you want MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't think you want to restrict the appraisal. I think you DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 75 e E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 L want to know what the max upside is. MR. KENNEDY: Do we want to know from Ted Cohen MS. ZIEGLER: You might take four to six weeks to get an appraisal. MR. KENNEDY: About the extra restrictions we raised. MR. BURDITT: That is to get a response to the bid. CHAIRMAN PACING: Hold on. We have two people at the same time. Bill, your question first, then the other Bill. We have three Bills here. MR. KENNEDY: The questions that were raised about the other restrictions, the adult book store, would this be something to ask Ted Cohen as well as the other? CHAIRMAN PACING: I think it would start with zoning as a zoning question first. Then the question, if we need to go to Ted, then I think Ted would be in the background at a future meeting if we decided we wanted to go that route. MR. KENNEDY: Okay. DOR.IS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Now Bill? MR. BURDITT:. I think Mollie raised the question about the timing of the assessment or the MS. ZIEGLER: Appraisal. MR. BURDITT: The appraisal. I don't think that is a major problem. We have plenty of time before we get the bids back. I think we need it sealed before we get the bid back I don't see that as a timing problem at all. CHAIRMAN PACING: In terms of going out for the appraisal you are saying? MR. BURDITT: Going out for the appraisal.. I think they can do an appraisal in the same period of time as we would have bids coming back. I don't think it would take any longer than once we have the bid package set to go out and ask for bids to come back, I would think an appraisal could come back in the same length of time. I don't see it as a timing problem. MR. BROWN: Any other, in terms of that, could we use you might ask Ted Cohen DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 77 s 4 F 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 also if we can use the same appraiser again, just update it, without going out for a bid. MR. BURDITT: I don't know if we need to use Ted. That I think it is more the RMLD lawyer. MR. VAN MAGNES define and examine appraisals is so, do we want the RMLD to proposals and talk to counsel can and can't be done? Is it to do that? S: Do we want to .next time? If that come back with in terms of what too early or late MR. BURDITT: I'm not sure examine appraisal requirements. I think discuss appraisal requirements. MR. BROWN: Yes. Len said we didn't have to, we could use the same appraiser over again. MR. BLOMLEY: Can we dig out the previous RFP for the appraisal firms? CHAIRMAN PACINO: Why don't you for the next meeting bring a copy of that for all the members, the previous RFP proposal. MR. BLOMLEY: That was done in 1891 but it lists what we were asking for. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: Is the RFP in here? MR. BLOMLEY: That is the appraisal. MR. BURDITT: I thought the RFP was, but it may not have been. MR. BLOMLEY: I don't believe so, Bill.. MR. BURDITT: There was so much in here. MR. BLOMLEY: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What else do you want to cover the next two weeks from now? What do you want to cover? CHAIRMAN PACINO: I think we have to visit the issue of the restrictions again where we left off on the previous two pages, the restrictions and the MS. ZIEGLER: Current zoning? CHAIRMAN PACING: Yes. The restrictions and the zoning. Right. MS. ZIEGLER: Is it too early to start thinking about the RFP? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Do we want to ask the town to give us copies of prior RFP's? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ` 24 Samples? Do you want to start to collect that data? CHAIRMAN PACING: I think we should. have that. MR. BLOMLEY: I think I already MR. VAN MAGNESS: You have it for Bear Hill and the Pearl Street School? MR. BLOMLEY: I have Pearl Street and the dump, the landfill. MS. ZIEGLER: I wonder if I have the old Bear Hill one. MR. BURDITT: I'm sure I do, too. MR. BLOMLEY: Was there a more recent one? Hills. Pursue that. MS. ZIEGLER: There are two Bear MR. VAN MAGNESS: I would want to CHAIRMAN PACING: Jim, could you pursue that, get the two most recent, or why don't you get the three most recent ones on that? MR. BLOMLEY: Okay. That would be one that I don't have. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. MR. BROWN: You are going to have a meeting right there. MR. BURDITT: Actually I think we had an RFP for the skating rink. MR. BROWN: Yes, we did. CHAIRMAN PACING: Jim, could you get the one for the skating rink? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's define what they are so there is no confusion. You have skating rink? MR. BURDITT: Yes. Which is the Haverhill Street. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have Bear Hill? MS. ZIEGLER: The second one. MR. KENNEDY: Bear Hill 2. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And Pearl Street? MR. BURDITT: Yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We want the dump. MS. ZIEGLER: Is there a current one? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. would have been th MS. MR. MR MR. BURDITT: e one that ZIEGLER: BURDITT: VAN MAGNE BURDITT: No. The latest one we awarded to Hallmark? Hallmark. SS: Too far back? It doesn't hurt to have it. MR. BROWN: Some are too big for this scope. CHAIRMAN PACINO: I would agree. MR. BROWN: The dump is too big. MS. ZIEGLER: Too different. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Those ought to be enough to start. Let's not overload with paper. Save the trees. Is there more data you want? MR. BLOMLEY: I was thinking sometimes you can pick the language out of some of the documents. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. What is interesting here is these three have been successful. This one hasn't (pointing to "dump"). We can capitalize on success. MR. BURDITT: Successful to the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 extent we have closed on the skating rink. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But you have got P and S's on them. MR. BURDITT: We have P and S's on them. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is there anything more in action items that you want? MS. ZIEGLER: That is enough. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I know. But we are moving. MR. BURDITT: Yes. We are. We are doing well. CHAIRMAN PACING: We are doing well. I agree. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You know, we have to MR. BROWN: How about the method of sale? MR. VAN MAGNESS: The who? MR. BROWN: The method of sale. Do we have to go out with the RFP or a sealed bid? Can we go out to public auction? CHAIRMAN PACINO: As I understood it, I asked Len that question, because I know you DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. a L c E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 83 L talked to me previously about that. Len's answer was we do have to go out because of the Uniform Procurement Act. MS. ZIEGLER: Of 1990? CHAIRMAN PACING: Right. MR. BROWN: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's think one more time about time line, because we have a defined end date. I think we have it over on one of our sheets. September 15th, we have to have a report. That means we really have to be at the point at the end of August with making decisions. So I would say your next meeting on the 10th is a very important meeting. The week after, if you want to have a meeting, somebody just has to leave me a voice message at home so I know when the time is, okay, and I will be back. Then I think we need to start making conclusions after that. We have to start to formulate. CHAIRMAN PACING: Why don't we do this. Why don't we say tentatively the next meeting after the 10th will be the 17th. Let's put that on everybody's calendar right now. I will ask if there is any problems with anybody's DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 short. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Does everybody raise their right hand up here? MS. ZIEGLER: That is town clerk's office. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Anything more you want? Are you ready to adjourn? It is up to you, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN PACINO: What is the position? We are missing a citizen. MR. BROWN: One citizen. MR. BURDITT: Two citizens of the community at large. CHAIRMAN PACING: Do we have anything else? MR. BROWN: No. MR. KENNEDY: Move to adjourn. MR. BURDITT: Second. CHAIRMAN PACINO: Moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. (Ayes heard.) CHAIRMAN PACINO: Opposed? (Hearing no response.) DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CHAIRMAN PACINO: The motion carries. (Whereupon, at 8:57 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.) DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. Haven Street Task Force Meeting Minutes Date: 28 July 1994 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Reading Town Hall Present: James Blomley, RMLD William Brown, Reading Resident Williard Burditt, Reading Selectman William Kennedy, Chamber of Commerce and Reading Business Proprietor Philip Pacino, RMLD Board of Commissioners Leonard Rucker, RMLD General Manager Fred Van Magness, Finance Committee Mollie Ziegler, Board of Assessors The Chairman called the meeting to order at 6:44 p.m. On a motion made by Ms. Ziegler and seconded by Mr. Van Magness, the minutes of 19 July 1994 were approved as amended. Mr. Rucker stated that the 21 E 1,000 gallon tank is a buyer's issue. Mr. Rucker further stated that the current structure does not meet code, and will not support additional levels, though the zoning does allow for it. The building is structurally sound based on an analysis performed in 1990. The value of the property is not significant, but the location and the land is valuable. Discussion followed regarding the Uniform Procurement Act, where the Town is required to take the highest price above the appraisal. The RMLD is not subject to the Act. The Uniform Procurement Act states the highes price. The Task Force concluded that the Town Counsel should assess the question as to what does the highest bid mean in the Uniform Procurement Act. Discussion followed regarding what the bid process would be. Mr. Rucker stated that the RFP will be advertised in all four towns. The Task Force briefly discussed what the "highest bid" means: tax revenue benefit, offsite impacts and improvements, town infrastructure impacts, dollar revenue and value impact on the neighborhood and businesses, or just the highest price. The amount to rebid, administrative costs ($5,000-$6,000) which does not include legal costs. The Task Force discussed the potential uses of the 25 Haven Street building. These include current inquiries from Atlantic Supermarket, Arts Center and an environmental school administration building. Mr. Kennedy will draft up a letter to the Chamber of Commerce members regarding potential impacts. Mr. Nichols had no issues relative to the Land Bank Committee. There has been no action taken on the 21 E's on the site. The Task Force discussed the impacts on infrastructure and tax revenue. The RMLD will obtain the three most recent Requests for Proposal: Skating Rink, Pearl Street School and Bear Hill. The Task Force scheduled the next meeting for 6:30 p.m. on August 10, 1994 at Reading Town Hall.