Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-08-17 ad Hoc Haven Street Task Force MinutesCOMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS TOWN OF READING 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HAVEN S'7'-,EET SALE TASK FORCE MEETING MINUTES Wednesday, August 17, 1994 230 Ash Street Reading, Massachusetts Commence: 6:40 p.m. Pages l to 107 Reporter: Tracy D. Helms DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. Professional Shorthand Reporters 59 Temple Place Boston, Massachusetts 02111 (617) 542-0039 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 2 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PRESENT: NAME Philip Pacino, as Chairman William C. Brown Mollie Ziegler William Burditt Fred Van Magness James H. Blomley John Edwards William Kennedy AFFILIATION Reading Municipal Light Department Citizen at Large Board of Assessors Selectman FinCom RMLD Assistant to General Manager Counsel Business DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 P R O C E E D I N G S MR. PACING: We've got answers to all the questions now. So I thought the best thing to do would be to go over what all the answers were and review that as to where we stand on that. The 21E I think we pretty much answered at a previous meeting on that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. MR. PACING: The zoning, there is a parking lot within 300 feet and it's the direct route as to how it's measured; restrictionson lock, there are 24 spaces there. And Jonathan mentioned what impact that would have on that area to take away 24 spaces down in that area because there is already tight parking already on that. Restrictions on the special permits, Mollie is researching that. I understand she has information on that. When she gets here, she's going to have that. As in terms of the options for the zoning, basically how could it be changed, they said really there would be no it would have to have because it's a. change use. You have to have a site plan DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 review on that property is what the CPD had told us on that. They said the best way to do it would be to restrict in the RFP as opposed to action going about changing the zoning on that. In terms of as to what this the impact on the reference the matter master plain, the CPD talked about the character of the area. In terms of just maintaining the character of the area as opposed to what restrictions that would impose on it. It's not in the 100 year flood plain. Looking for more detailed zoning maps, which I think we have. MR. BLOMLEY: Which we have up here now at this point. (Mollie Ziegler enters meeting) MR. PACING: Can we have restrictions on the business use B, we were told yes; and the best way to do it is through the RFP at that point. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Mm-hmm. MR. BURDITT: Before you change pages I think you said, Phil, one of these items Mollie might have something on, before you change the page. MR. PACINO: Yeah, you want to MR. BLOMLEY: On the handouts on the table. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 .7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 MR. PACINO: On the restrictions. MS. ZIEGLER: This, that should go on the back. It's underneath. Last two pages I found a lot of variances with lot lines. Read through it. (Pause) MR. VAN MAGNESS: Were these all approved basically? MS. ZIEGLER: Mm-hmm. Everything that one was denied and one was withdrawn. They changed their system for a while. They had it by date and all of a sudden they did number of cases per that year. The first page has to do with rivers and parking, and you'll read what Jonathan said. He says must lie within 300 feet with in order not to have in order for there to be no on-site parking. It says the entire physical location. If you look at this map underneath the rivers building which is the Gould Street thing, the building didn't even touch 300 feet. Well, if you measure that 300 feet across there and you go to this part of the lot, and it touches the building; but the whole building isn't within 300 feet. So I don't know whether we're going to have to have DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 l 1 2 2 2. 2. 2j 6 1 they are going to have to keep parking or what. 2 There's going to have to a determination be made of 3 it. 4 I put some information on the bottom. One 5 of them got cut off, but for retail consumer service 6 you need one per each 300 per square feet. Same way 7 with offices; but then if it's over a certain point, S certain sizes, you need a 12 by 35 loading dock. 9 Now, see from his letter here that he 0 wrote in 1988, it looks like the whole building has 1 got to be in 300 feet. 2 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, this 3 particular letter didn't end up in the rivers 1 property. MS. ZIEGLER: It ended up in the case 5 in the denial. That's where I found it. I found it 7 in the ZBA informa tion under withdrawal 1989. 3 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Withdrawal? MS. ZIEGLER: Yup. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's why I didn't L see it. MS. ZIEGLER: It was withdrawn. 3 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Now, they withdrew. 6 MS. ZIEGLER: No, it was the CPDC. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 7 1 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Withdrew the 2 MS. ZIEGLER: Complained about the 3 decision that building inspector I'm not sure 4 what it was. 5 MR. VAN MAGNESS: In other words 6 MS. ZIEGLER: I don't know whether it 7 was the building i nspector's decision that made the 8 CPDC go to the zon ing board to fight the building 9 inspector's decisi on. I mean, I'm not 10 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sounds like it's 11 very great. 12 MS. ZIEGLER: I don't don't 13 understand zoning that much. It's something I 14 wis=h John was here tonight. 15 MR. VAN MAGNESS: He's coming. 16 MR. PACING: He's coming. 17 MR. VAN MAGNESS: You draw that 18 radius, that radiu s sweeps through. 19 MS. ZIEGLER: Part of the building. 20 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. 21 MS. ZIEGLER: If you go from this 22 part from the part back here. 23 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Depending if you go 24 from an access way or can you go through buildings? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. ZIEGLER: This is an access between buildings. This is a shopping mall. It has a walkway through the building. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But it's not open all the time. It's only during business time that they are open. MS. between Brooks and MR. MR. about the most dir gets here, we have route was. ZIEGLER: I don't know. It's VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. PACINO: Jonathan was talking ect route. I think when Jonathan to ask him what the most direct MS. ZIEGLER: I showed him this when I found it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Even that most direct route doesn't go through the whole property. MR. BROWN: 300 feet from the corner brings it to the building. MS. ZIEGLER: The letter says entire, the building has to be 300 feet. MR. PACING: At the town meeting some sort of zoning change got made right there after this after this I remember. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: It was a big hoopty-doo. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think anything got done. MR. BROWN: I don't think so either. We talked about it. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think anything got passed. MR. BROWN: I don't find it in any of the town reports. MS. ZIEGLER: You did check on it? MR. BROWN: Oh, yeah. Where it had been suggested it came to the town meeting and we just got kind of lost in the shuffle, and they followed through two or three years after that; and I didn't find anything after that where it got picked up again. MR. KENNEDY: The railroad area, that's not municipal parking at all. MS. ZIEGLER: You probably are there is probably parking there. MR. BURDITT: There is resident parking or you pay a dollar. MS. ZIEGLER: After 10:00 it's free. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 10 i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 That restricted for resident parking. MR. KENNEDY: After 10:30. MS. ZIEGLER: After 10:30 in the morning you don't have to have a sticker. MR. KENNEDY: Is that municipal perking? If so, I would think that building is completely within that 300 feet. MS. ZIEGLER: It might I don't know. Wait a minute. Let's see, where's that other map? MR. BROWN: 300 feet from there would be using the same. MR KENNEDY: As you're looking at the depo? MR. BROWN: Yeah. MR. KENNEDY: From the light department to the left of the depo, the other side of the track, that's for residents only. That's not MR. BURDITT: Mm-hmm. MR. KENNEDY: So that is MS. ZIEGLER: There is parking all along the street. MR. KENNEDY: There is parking all DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 11 along the street as well and that's for right around the depo. That's for Reading residents only. MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. The front of the building is within 300 feet of that parking space straight across. MR. BROWN: If you're taking a quick estimate of the ruler taking it from the parking lot, yeah, from the I would say the edge of the parking lot along the tracks would certainly be within 300 feet just MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. Question. I have we are trying to solve something way beyond what we are trying to solve. MR. BURDITT: I was thinking exactly the same thing. MS. ZIEGLER: We were also looking at that we don't want parking to disappear in that building. MR. BURDITT: MS. ZIEGLER: parking there, it's needed. MR. PACINO: MS. ZIEGLER: Yes. We want there to be Right. See, if it wasn't DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 within 300 feet completely of another slot, then they have to keep it. They have to have so much parking. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess the concern I have is that when we're going to get the we're going to get an appraisal of the building which they should, you know, consider the implications of parking and no parking and requirements and the buyer of that property would have to conform to MS. ZIEGLER: Right. MR. VAN MAGNESS: the zoning regulations, whatever they are. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Buyer beware. MR. KENNEDY: Well MR. VAN MAGNESS: I mean, is this an issue that requires us to give interpretative MS. ZIEGLER: No. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm trying to understand where we have do we have to get: the RFP '.o address this thing in terms of uses? MR. BROWN: I think the last MR. KENNEDY: I don't I'm sorry. MR. BROWN: --.appraisal on that DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 .7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 property stated that the parking. It was greater brought a higher price. saying we're really figh non-issue. 13 highest value was with value with parking. It So I think what you're ting nothing. To me it's MR. PACING: Bill. MR. KENNEDY: I feel a buyer would want to know about this parking and where that answer is going to come from. It could come from here. We could find the answer whether or not somebody needs to have a parking lot if they buy that, if they make changes; and it would be a factor in someone purchasing the property. MS. ZIEGLER: It's not our decision. MR. KENNEDY: It's not our decision. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't think it's our decision to make or MR. KENNEDY: Can we get the decision and have it out MS. ZIEGLER: I think we have to have ask the zoning officer. MR. KENNEDY: Or will that always be a question after until after the person buys the property? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think the RFP permits uses there depending how we word it, it needs to conform with the zoning regulations and the requ.rements of the Town of Reading including implications for on-site parking. MR. BURDITT: Jonathan is going to be here tonight. We should ask Jonathan. That's a legal question, you know, a zoning question and MR. PACING: If you look at that board, we talk about parking lot distance, we talk about restrictions on lots lot within the building area. MS ZI-EGLER: Yeah, -then I found this afterwards. It says the whole building, that's why I copied it to bring it to you. MR. PACINO: We know we're very concerned about losing those 24 spots down there because we're pushing into other areas where there aren't enough spots and very much concern on that whether or not we want to restrict it. We can make it more restricted by saying there should be parking. MS. ZIEGLER: If we get a decision, yeah, it falls within there has to be parking DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 - 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 15 there. We don't have to say anything about it. MR. PACINO: We in the RFP could say we want those 24 spaces to remain. MR. BURDITT: Let's find out whether it's required. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I disagree strongly with specifying anything in terms of the number of spaces because you don't know what the use is going to be. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: For example, what if someone puts in day care and they need five spaces_._ The_kids can't drive. Having 24 there would be lots of fun but nonuse. MR. KENNEDY: Take that McDonalds facility and put it right on the lot. MR. BROWN: I think you had the similar situation on Pearl Street, didn't you, Bill, where they wanted actually less spaces than what was required? MR. BURDITT: Yeah, because of the usage of MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. MS. ZIEGLER: Clientele. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 .1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 16 MR. VAN MAGNESS: So I think that, you know, if we specify in the RFP that the intended bidder needs to be in conformance with the zoning requirements of the Town of Reading including necessary on-site parking as it may apply, I think then we've made a disclosure there; and it leaves it open to the right people making the right interpretation. MR. BURDITT: We have and I think we could probably have the zoning enforcement officer put in what the requirements are dependent on what the usage is MR. VAN MAGNESS: -They're always subject to getting a variance anyway. MR. BURDITT: Absolutely, but I think I think listening to what Bill said it would be helpful to put it into the RFP. If it's manufacturing, it should be "X" number of spaces. If it's this use, if it's that use. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't think we ought to be defining it that way. MR. BURDITT: I think it's easier. MR. KENNEDY: Something in between, not really a listing of if it's this, it must be DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that; but MS. ZIEGLER: If they went to a three-story building, they would have to have more parking spaces. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Again, I go back to the fact that the use of the site and whatever they want to put on there, the potential bidder should make sure they check if they I think it's applicable, what the applicable zoning requirement of the Town; and if they don't want to check and put in a big bid, fine, we'll sell to them. if they can't use it for that MR. BROWN: Suggestion, if we put this memorandum in the RFP MR. BURDITT: I wouldn't. MR. PACINO: I don't think so. MR. BURDITT: That was a judgmental thing in 1988. God knows what happened between then and 1988. MR. BROWN: Just to pacify both. MR. PACING: I think what Fred is saying the bid should be in conformance with the present zoning laws. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 18 MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah, that's all understood. MR. PACINO: If it's on the bid MR. VAN MAGNESS: Including whatever necessary required on-site parking may be dictated by those regulations. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MS. ZIEGLER: You have the whole thing conforming to the zoning bylaws of the Town. That's all let them figure out what they are. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Buyer beware. MS. ZIEGLER: And the bid is going to be contingent on them getting what they want.. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Exactly. MS. ZIEGLER: So MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. PACING: Okay. Look at that page now, is there any other we have the more detailed zoning maps here in front of us. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm ready to move on. MR. PACING: Okay. Okay. Then we talk about the issues needing answers. The structural viability of the building I think we DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 discussed. Is the property worth more without the building? I think we were discussing we can get the appraisal. What do we have to accept as the highest bid? I did talk to Ted Cohen on that, the cost in terms of the rebidding is he felt it was about the same, five to 6,000. We have another chart on the highest bid. It got changed, the wording there, to call it the best acceptable bid, Ted said we can take any bid that we want. It doesn't have to be we have to set the reasons why in terms of backup. If we don't like the highest bid that comes in, we're not K,Oq-uired to take the highest bid. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Ted says we need to have a set of criteria to evaluate the bids. MR. PACINO: Right. Which is what we start over here on this one which is coming up. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Question. MR. PACING: Yeah. (Discussion off record) MR. PACING: What potential reuses have surfaced to date? I did talk to Peter. The only other use that has resurfaced to date is retail, and Peter had gotten an inquiry from the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 20 Gingerbread Factory over in Winchester. They have inquired about the building about making it a bakery. We talked to Jonathan last week for a few minutes, whether they could do that. As long as they have some sort of retail operation in the building, they could probably do that under the zoning as it now stands. What does the community want? Do you have anything more, Bill, than what we have? MR. KENNEDY: I've spoken to Juno Keefe. A letter will be going out to either 150 or 300 there is 150 membership of the Chamber of Commerce, and they normally mailout to 300 people. Which way it goes I don't know yet, which will solicit their input. MR. PACINO: Okay. MR. KENNEDY: On what they want and also what they don't want. MR. PACINO: We talked about the hours of operations. Basically the bylaw is midnight to six a.m., and then the land back committee had nothing on that except MR. BROWN: If it was a bakery, they could bake at night as long as they didn't open to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 retail I think. MR. PACINO: Good question. Good question. We'll have to ask Jonathan that question when he comes. MS. ZIEGLER: Ask the selectman. MR. BURDITT: I'm sorry, I missed that one. MR. PACINO: What he said if the Gingerbread Factory went in and had a bakery, could they bake between the hours of midnight and six a.m.? MR. BURDITT: They can't do business. I don't know of anything that prohibits manufacturing. MR. BROWN: There was a couple of bakeries down there at one time. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think the only issue you would have is probably restriction of deliveries. MR. BURDITT: Yes, you could. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That type of thing. MS. ZIEGLER: Remember the Doughnut Shop. We had a hearing when this first went into effect when I was on the board, they came into the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 doughnut shop earlier and were serving the people in the apartment, and they were getting gasoline and drinking water up at the MR. VAN MAGNESS: People are entitled to quiet enjoyment of their property and that fits within the quiet enjoyment of the time period. MR. PACING: So at this point this pretty much answers all of the questions as we sent out for information on the different boards and committees and departments. Quickly, I think you have all seen this one before. The reuse is basically it's pretty much the same as the chart we had done previously at this point. Like --I--said, the only one that has been added I think I don't think we wrote it down on here was just the Gingerbread Factory. Then we talked about the best then we talked about the highest bid. Now, these were added the last time. The reason why the stars are on them is we didn't have enough people for a quorum. These were discussion items. MS. ZIEGLER: So we need to add them now. MR. PACINO: Right. We need to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 23 1 officially add them tonight. 2 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Question. 3 MR. PACINO: Yes. 4 MR. VAN MAGNESS: When we set our 5 original mis sion statement, we talked about highest 6 bid. 7 MR. PACINO: Right. g MR. VAN MAGNESS: Have we now changed 9 our fission statement? 10 MR. PACING: That's an interesting 11 question. 12 MR. BURDITT: We have discussed 13 changing the mission statement, but I thin) without 14 a quorum the best acceptable versus highest 15 MR. BROWN: Is that for the benefit 16 of the Town of Reading or the benefit of the 17 ratepayers? 18, MR. BURDITT: I think a combination 19 of both. I think in the long-run whatever is good 20 for RMLD is good for the ratepayers as well as the 21 Town of Read ing. For instance, I mean, the highest 22 bid for the Town of Reading, highest bid could come 23 in from a no nprofit operation. 24 MR. BROWN: Right. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 <14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: Which would do zilch for Re~ld:i_ng in the next few years. Now, there could be somebody that was a little less than the highest bid f.hat becomes a taxpayer to the Town of Reading. So from the Town of Reading that's good. MR. BROWN: Yeah. MR. BURDITT: Now, the highest bid could also be somebody that's a risk to meeting the obligations of the procurement. MR. BROWN: Okay. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. BROWN: Okay. MR. BURDITT: And that could incur additional costs to RMLD which is the detriment to the ratepayers. So I think it's a combination of things. MR. BROWN: I'm always available to listen. MR. BURDITT: I understand that and I appreciate that, but I think that's MR. BROWN: That's how we get our conversation. MR. BURDITT: But I think this is MS. ZIEGLER: Can you still leave the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 25 1 maximize the proceeds in because you're enhancing 2 the area? Y ou want it to be commercially sensitive, 3 you know. 4 MR. BURDITT: It's a combination. 5 MS. ZIEGLER: You don't want it to 6 cost anybody so much. 7 MR. BURDITT: Yeah. 8 MR. PACINO: This is the discussion, 9 we kind of c hanged it from last time the word 10 highest bid to best acceptable. 11 MR. VAN MAGNESS: But that could be 1-2 in conflict with the concept of maximizing the. 1.3 proceeds to the ratepayers. -14 MS. ZIEGLER: But we then we need 15 to restrict we've already put four restrictions 16 on that enco urage inquiries, release restrictive, 17 and enhance the area, and be commercially 18 sensitive. Do we want to add some more to that to 19 fit in with this? 20 MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's the 21 that's kind of the discussion I think. 22 MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. 23 MR. PACINO: Things we talked about 24 under the be st acceptable. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 26 MR. BURDITT: And I changed the mission statement from maximize the proceeds to best acceptable bid for the benefit of the ratepayers and the Town of Reading, and I think every one of those things fits into that. Instead of maximizing the proceeds, you're doing both. You're you know, you're weighing both and I think by the best acceptable bid isn't negative to either side. MR. PACINO: Hi, John. (John Edwards enters meeting) MR. BROWN: Hard to do both I think, Bill. MR BURDITT: What? MR. BROWN: I think it's hard to do both. MR. BURDITT: I can see a positive to best acceptable with both. MS. ZIEGLER: But MR. BURDITT: As I previously stated, best acceptable for something that is generating taxes to the Town and best accessible or best acceptable to make sure that we have someone that may not be the highest bidder, but someone that we don't think will cost Reading Municipal Light to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 27 bid, rebid, rebid. I don't have a problem with best acceptable. MR. mean the residents MR. MR. MR. the residents of R MR. MS. KENNEDY: With the ratepayers we of the four communities? VAN MAGNESS: Mm-hmm. PACINO: Yes, right. KENNEDY: And over there we mean eading? VAN MAGNESS: Right. ZIEGLER: Ratepayers and the Town of Reading. MR. KENNEDY: And the non-representative isn't here and it would be good to hear from that person. MR. BROWN: I think, Bill, when he came to this first meeting, he stated they didn't have much problem with what we want to do so long as we felt it was in the best interest of Reading. MR. BURDITT: And the ratepayers. I'm sure best acceptable wouldn't hurt the ratepayers. I don't think we're looking to hurt the ratepayers by taking some el'cheapo bid that is going to be good for Reading and not the ratepayers. MR. BROWN: Because the bids may not DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 be that far apart. MR. BURDITT: I don't think so. MS. ZIEGLER: If somebody doesn't have good financial viability and the viability to go through with it and we drag on and drag on and cost the ratepayers and the light department to keep the building MR. KENNEDY: I think as Bill said it was the other person, the non-Reading representative, it's understood we're not going to sell ourselves down the river just to move a property. MR. BROWN: That's the impression I got. MR. KENNEDY: I think we can feel these two are not exclusive. MR. PACINO: What's the feeling, it does not conflict or it does? MR. BURDITT: If we take out the word:; the ratepayers then MR. KENNEDY: Do you want to stop this for a moment and try to figure that out? MR. BURDITT: No, I don't think so. Maximize proceeds through a process that will DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18, 19 20 21 22 23 24 encourage and whatever or add the words to ratepayers and citizens of Reading. MS. ZIEGLER: Town of Reading. MR. BURDITT: Town of Reading. MR. PACING: Yeah, but you maximize the proceeds MR. BURDITT: I feel we need to make some language changes. MR. PACINO: If you maximize the proceeds to the ratepayers, what you're doing there is what the mission statement says. MR. BURDITT: And I'm not sure the highest: bid will totally maximize the proceeds. I think, you know, best acceptable bid may or may not. I don't know that highest bid will do that. MS. ZIEGLER: It doesn't say it has to be the highest bid. It says maximize the proceeds. But you want to keep it to enhance the area to be commercially sensitive so MR. BURDITT: You're right. MS. ZIEGLER: You can have something a lot higher that won't do that. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. That's true too. You may not need the highest bid to maximize DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the proceeds, you're right. MS. ZIEGLER: There is no definition of enhance the area to be commercially sensitive. I mean MR. PACINO: I'm not sure he's agreeing with that. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. MR. PACING: I'm not sure Fred is agreeing with that. MR. BROWN: He's thinking. MS. ZIEGLER: The wheels are going. MR. BROWN: There has got to be a mending of the two, at what paint, how do we say it.? MR. PACINO: I think maybe MR. BURDITT: First of all, I think the words best acceptable absolutely are totally proper. You know, I mean, that encompasses r-iaximize everything, best acceptable is the best acceptable. That can encompass maximizing. It can encompass a lot of things. Best acceptable is a very general statement. That's the way to go. Under the mission statement we never said highest bid. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I have some words DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 31 1. 2 3 4 5 6 .7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to suggest, I think we need to the coin the right ones. MR. KENNEDY: Why not just add a five to after be commercially sensitive, add through a process that will generate the best acceptable bid, go beck to read that all now that there is five. MR. BURDITT: Best acceptable, yeah, that doesn't say to whose benefit. MR. PACINO: Fred. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess I would be rather more positive and upfront with what we're trying to do. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's why I suggested putting in the words, you know, because I think that employs MR. BURDITT: I don't have any objection. MR. PACINO: What's the wording we're going to use? MS. ZIEGLER: Optimize. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Optimize benefit to Town of Reading. Benefits. MR. PACINO: Optimize benefits, okay, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 32 to the Town of Reading. So we add optimize benefits to the Town of Reading. MS. ZIEGLER: That's what that stuff .is talking about. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. MR. BROWN: It's tied together. MS. ZIEGLER: Right. We've got to tie them together. MR. BROWN: Onward and upwards. MR. EDWARDS: To be a devious advocate here MR. BROWN: That's my role. MR. EDWARDS: You're one extreme and I'm the other. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We'll be there tomorrow, Jonathan. MR. EDWARDS: What's the guy from Wilmington or North Reading or where ever he is from going to say about that one? MR. VAN MAGNESS: If he were here, he would have his chance. MR. PACINO: Right. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't think it I don't think it's in conflict with the original DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 concepts of maximizing the proceeds to the ratepayers, but we also ought to optimize the benefits to the Town of Reading in that process. And I don't think he would disagree with that because I don't think that if a let's say that someone wanted to come in and put in an X-rated theater and was willing to pay $10 million for that site. I'm not sure that they'd say that's probably the best use even for the Town of Reading. I think that, you know MR. BROWN: Rignt. MR. EDWARDS: So it's not a totally bottom line analysis with them. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think that's what we're aaying in terms of bid processing in terms of reviewing. MR. PACING: I think you're somehow going to have to get a happy medium. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think the maximize proceeds should be heavily weighed in the process. MR. KENNEDY: Do it another way and instead of saying optimize the benefit to Reading, say t,,ithout Reading suffering any penalty from DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 34 1 2 3 4 E E 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 this. I mean, that's something everybody could go along with. MS. ZIEGLER: Penalty from what? MR. KENNEDY: From the sale of this thing, if somebody comes along with a great bid but it's a terrible thing they are going to use it for. MS. ZIEGLER: That's quality of use. MR. KENNEDY: It would be commercially sensitive, maximize the proceeds without penalizing the community. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess the point I take on that, the Town has not received any revenue for that site for - let's say, _forever. MS. ZIEGLER: They did here though. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah, but now we're talking about that specific site. And if your words were what did you have? What words did you say? MR. PACINO: Without without suffering a penalty. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Without suffering a penalty. MR. KENNEDY: Without suffering a penalty to Reading. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Then, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 35 1 therefore, any change in use that would say there is 2 going to be no tax revenue from that would not be a 3 penalty to the Town of Reading. 4 MS. ZIEGLER: Yes, it would. 5 MR. VAN MAGNESS: It's the existing 6 condition. 7 MS. ZIEGLER: We lost revenue because 8 they moved down here and this is tax exempt. 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Nobody asked us to 10 compare these two sites, did they? 11 MR. PACINO: We're not comparing that 12, site to that site. 13 MR. KENNEDY: I guess I'm saying to 14 what Jonathan brought up about this Mr. All-man, I 15 don't think he would have be have to truly argue 16 with that. It's a he want would want to 17 interfere with. It he thought we were doing 18 something that was going to take money away from the 19 other communities, he might object to that. 20 MR. VAN MAGNESS: But won't he have, 21 and rightly so, as we go through the evaluative 22 process later on after the bids come through have 23 plenty of opportunity to state that position and 24 influence that outcome as part of the evaluation DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 process? Why shut it down now? MR. KENNEDY: Who, Altman? MR. PACINO: No, no, no, the bid process. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The bid process. MR. PACINO: Get back to bids. MS. ZIEGLER: We have to look at the bids, make the choice. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm talking about the person from the other town, Bart. MR. KENNEDY: Bart. MR. PACINO: Bart. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I mean, John, your word acceptable is go_ingto_be defined by this. Otherwise, you could become arbitrary or capricious and become accused of that. MR. BURDITT: That's not this board, that's my board that's going to be argued. MR. EDWARDS: You're the arbitrator. MR. BURDITT: This is advisory to us. MR. PACINO: Are we going to change the mission statement or are we happy the way it reads'? MR. BROWN: I think it's acceptable DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 at this stage. MS. ZIEGLER: We can change it later. MR. BROWN: Fine, either way. MR. BURDITT: I don't have a problem with that. MR. PACING: Okay. It stands? MR. BROWN: I don't have a problem. MR. PACINO: We changed the highest to best acceptable. The tax revenue we talked about, the off--site impacts, improvements, town infrastructure, revenue only, the value of the impact on neighborhood slash business, and we had the four discussion items. We had the four items the impact on town operational costs, the financial viability of the bidder, the ability of the bidder to carry out what he is proposing to do, and then we talked about the quality of use on those. Those were the four items that ran from the discussion on last time. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is quality of use somewhat dependent on the value of the impact on the neighborhood and business? MR. BURDITT: Quality of use is to be directly weighted on that impact may be. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 38 1 7.. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess I want to understand what's the difference, how would you explain a difference between the two? MS. ZIEGLER: You put a restaurant in there, a good restaurant. It's going to have a value impact on the other restaurants in the neighborhood, but the quality of use is probably pretty good. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Okay. I understand. MS. ZIEGLER: Another hardware store. MR. PACINO: Why don't we go on. MR. BROWN: Good competition. MR. PACINO: Before we go on to restrictions, Jonathan, we had a question on the parking requirements. The definition of the 300 feet, how is that defined as it relates to that plot? MR. EDWARDS: Let's see, 1 cuoLe myself. This was on the table so MR. PACINO: Right. MR. EDWARDS: According to the Town Counsel the entire retail, office or consumer-service space must be within 300. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 40 1 MR. VAN MAGNESS: In this example? 2 MR. EDWARDS: In that example the 3 light department property is not entirely within or 4 the building is not entirely within 300 feet. 5 MR. VAN MAGNESS: From that point? 6 MR. EDWARDS: Of the nearest point of 7 that parcel that contains that parking lot. 8 MR. BURDITT: But 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: If you took it from 10 High Street parking, it would be. 11 MR. EDWARDS: Pardon? 12 MR. BROWN: If you took it from High 13 Street parking, it would be. 14 MR. EDWARDS: The depo parking we've 15 never interpreted because nobody ever asked before 16 whether the depo is public parking or not. Although 17 I would say that one of the differences is the depo 18 parking is restricted in terms of who can park 19 there. 20 MR. VAN MAGNESS: If you pay, you can 21 park. If you are a Reading resident, you can park 22 for free. 23 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Designated spots or DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 41 1. whatever it is there, but I mean, anybody can park 2 there. 3 MR. EDWARDS: Well, I mean, in my 4 cop-out answer we ask Town Counsel. 5 MR. BURDITT: Did we not 6 MR. EDWARDS: But I can't give you an 7 answer for sure because no one has asked it before 8 and we haven't deliberated on it; and an 9 off-the-cuff answer is not going to do you any good. 10 MR. BURDITT: Didn't we give special 11 approval to Atlantic to all ow certain full-time 12 employees to park? 13 MR-.- EDWARDS : To park at the depo. 14 MR. BURDITT: Resident parking. 15 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. 16 MR. BURDITT: With a slip or 17 something as long as they w ere full-time employees. 18 MR. EDWARDS: That's so they wouldn't 19 crowd out customers from th is lot. 20 MR. BURDITT: I mean, their 21 precedent, we have granted nonresident employees a 22 residential exception, if y ou will, to park. 23 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah, I'm a little 24 skittish today about legal questions because we've DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 42 1 been head to head with lawyers all day long and my 2 mind is 3 MR. BURDITT: We have allowed 4 employees to use nonresident employees to use 5 residential parking. 6 MR. VAN MAGNESS: At the depo. 7 MR. BURDITT: At the depo with some 8 kind of a 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: So it sounds like 10 we have defi ned that as a parking lot. 11 MR. BROWN: And prior to it being 12 paved, Bill, people parked there forever. 13 MR. BURDITT: Yeah. 14 MR. EDWARDS: All I can tell you is 15 the question has not come up and we've never 16 examined it. 17 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I like the answer I 18 gave earlier how we ought to handle it in the RFP, 19 move forward . 20 MR. EDWARDS: Can I ask why you're 21 asking the q uestion? 22 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Because we had it 23 as an issue that needed an answer. 24 MR. BURDITT: Because we don't know DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 43 whether we need to put something in the RFP explaining what the parking rights are and whether they can MS. ZIEGLER: The appraiser will know that anyway. MR. EDWARDS: We discussed last week and I think you discussed before that there is value to keeping the maybe added value to the site, but certainly added value to downtown to keep those 24 spaces there. MR. BURDITT: We know that, but is that a requirement I think MR. VAN MAGNESS: From theTown's MS. ZIEGLER: It's not th':; whole thing is not 300 feet. I found that out when I looked up that other stuff. So it's not wit`zin 300 feet, the whole building of the parking lot behind Atlantic. So it has to keep parking; but if the depo is not considered public parking, then they can't use that parking to do away with it. MR. EDWARDS: The other thing, if you want to get technical, we could say, and forgive me this is the lawyer's talk, that depo lot is on-sc:reet parking arid, therefore, doesn't count as a DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1.7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 public parking lot so the depo MR. VAN MAGNESS: Can you charge for on-site parking? MR. EDWARDS: You could, yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You can. MR. EDWARDS: You can resCIrict. Selectmen do it all the time. MS. ZIEGLER: It is around the whole area. MR. EDWARDS: Legally speaking the depo parking is in the public right-a-way. It's not on a separate lot. MS. ZIEGLER: Could you could you ask? MR. EDWARDS: If you want to get really really technical about it. MS. ZIEGLER: Jonathan, would you ask Ted if that would apply for parking for this buildling? MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. MS. ZIEGLER: In the bylaw for us. MR. EDWARDS: I could do that. MR. BROWN: I think it is a circle of law. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 45 1 MR. EDWARDS: Lincoln Street is. 2 MR. BROWN: If we sold the property 3 it was defin ed, I'm pretty sure, it was a separate 4 parking lot. 5 MR. EDWARDS: I could be wrong. 6 MR. BROWN: I'll go back to my town 7 reports. 8 MR. KENNEDY: That may still be 300 9 feet, within 300 feet of that. 10 MR. EDWARDS: It might be. You'd 11 have to meas ure it on a map. Let me find out from 12 Town Counsel what what I see, but I do want to 13 legalities a side, I think that from the Town's 14 perspective 24- lots are -valuable. We are .bout 36, 15 37 lots shy, 37 parking spaces shy of what downtown 16 would be should have given the parking standards 17 in the zonin g bylaw. 18 MR. BROWN: I think our problem is, 19 Jonathan, it may be valuable to the Town of Reading, 20 but we're ch arged to look at the maximizing for the 21 ratepayers, from the ratepayer viewpoint it may not 22 be valuable to them. 23 MR. EDWARDS: Well, when CPDC reviews 24 through site plan, they are going to care as much DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 about the ratepayers as they do about the taxpayers. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's why optimizing the benefit to the Town, that could be an important issue. MR. EDWARDS: Absolutely. MR. VAN MAGNESS: As to the Town benefits I think I agree with you on that. MR. EDWARDS: I mean, the CPDC would say why should the Town of Reading suffer simply because it took the risk and established the light department and its citizens still take the risk because they underwrite the files which the other citizens and the ratepayers in the other communities don't do. MR. BROWN: Yeah, and to the other ratepayers, we're going to take that one million eight away from you. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Can we add something to this? What does best acceptable bid mean? MR. PACINO: Sure. If you have and then you'll have five new commissioners is siting there too. (Discussion off record) DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 _ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 47 MR. EDWARDS: I realize I'm being seditious. I do think I'm employed by the taxpayers, and it's my job to look out for their interests. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Absolutely. MR. EDWARDS: They're employed Jim is employed by the ratepayers and it's his job to look after their interests. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So I think that ought to be to your point, the 24 whatever spaces that should be part of the impact, the assessment we .gothrough on this bidding thing. Do you agree? MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. MR. EDWARDS: And you know, to let you know, any use in this site will be subject to site plan because it's necessarily a change in use. MR. PACINO: Right. MR. EDWARDS: And CPDC will take a long hard look at the parking; and if we have to find loop holes about the depo parking, we can find them as well as any other developer. And I don't mean that to be threatening. It's just that's what's going to happen if the citizen's interests DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 48 r> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 aren't looked after. MR. PACINO: Okay. Any other items? MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. MR. PACINO: We then reviewed the restrictions, things we don't want on the site. The only really new thing we added was warehousing or bulk storage. We don't want any warehousing or bulk storage, that's the only thing new we added on that one. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why? MS. ZIEGLER; Detrimental to the area. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Says who? MR. BURDITT: Qualitative life. MR. PACINO: We feel it would dehance the area. MR. EDWARDS: That's Bill's word. MR. BROWN: On the other hand, if you don't have any traffic that's not hindering hurting the area either. MR. EDWARDS: Well, I think the theory was let's try to find some uses that will attract customers who may be there to go to other stores as well. A warehouse doesn't do that. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BROWN: I understand that we're going to impact the traffic if we take off 24 parking spots. If you put in a dead storage warehouse, you're not going to have any traffic to amount to anything. You're going to have people in once a year or MR. EDWARDS: Under that theory make the whole downtown a warehouse and you've got no parking or traffic problem. MR. BROWN: Walmart has done that to towns. MR. EDWARDS: Don't assume you're going to do away with the 24 parking spaces. MR. BROWN: Just throwing a little devil advocate back at you. MR. PACINO: Is there anything else you want to add to this at this point? MR. EDWARDS: You're doing a good job. MR. BROWN: Do we have the right to put the restriction on? MR. BURDITT: These are desired restrictions. They are not MR. PACINO: We can put DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 restrictions more restrictions than what the present zoning puts on that. MS. ZIEGLER: We can't get into another Business A or Business C, that's spot zoning, we couldn't do that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Could you go back to the prior chart, flip it over for a second. Here we've got all these desired restrictions. Do we have something in the criteria that will de-al with that criteria area? We're going back to the thing if we're looking at this thing, shouldn't we have part of the criteria something that says is this use MS. ZIEGLER: Acceptable. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is it acceptable use in accordance with what we said the desired restriction is? MR. BURDITT: I think the quality of use and value impact both are areas which we're saying are what we think is best for the area. And now we get to the desired restrictions and these are things we really feel are not MR. VAN MAGNESS: Good. MR. BURDITT: good for either of DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 these. MS. ZIEGLER: We don't need a gas station. MR. PACING: Should that be worked in here as another item? MS. ZIEGLER: That's what I was talking about. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Should we need to have it there? MR. PACINO: Say somebody comes in with a biotech. MS. ZIEGLER: Does it fit into our restriction on Business B? Does it agree with Business B minus our restrictions or something like that? MR. PACING: Should we just add a word restriction? MS. ZIEGLER: Or is it an acceptable use? MR. PACING: How do you define acceptable? MS. ZIEGLER: We have restrictions, Business B restrictions, and we said we don't want these. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 52 MR. PACINO: There may be other things that come up. MR. BURDITT: You're right. Maybe another bullet saying desired restrictions. MR. PACING: You may see another bid come in that you may not like. (Off the record) MR. PACING: Okay. Then we went to proposed change needed for zoning. The only one we added from the last time we actually talked about making RFP restrictive, we want to make the zoning restriction, we would do it through the RFP; and there will be also a site plan review as to restrictions that we wanted to put on the property as opposed to actually going out and changing the zoning on that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's what we said in the last to next to last bullet also. MR. PACINO: Right. We kind of said the same thing. We just MS. ZIEGLER: changes in. We can't put any zoning MR. PACING: I don't remember what was the could we have a municipal reuse DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 district? I don't remember. MR. EDWARDS: We talked about that. MR. PACINO: I don't remember the answer. MR. EDWARDS: Municipal building reuse district can only be put on municipal buildings, and this has been declared to be not a municipal building. So, therefore, that doesn't apply. MS. ZIEGLER: Jonathan said we can't do any zoning changes because that's spot zoning. MR. PACINO: That's not zoning, so the restriction we want to put in would be the best way to do it is the RFP process. MS. ZIEGLER: No, no, no. We're talking about furthering making it expanding to soak in another some of the other zoning areas are less restrictive than B. MR. EDWARDS: What we have done is state that any proposal which proposes the use not in accordance with zoning or any of the following types of uses would not be acceptable and list those that aren't covered by the zoning. MR. BURDITT: But I think we also DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 54 i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 said that when looking at all of the restrictions for the various zones, that it appeared it would require a total review of what the different zones should have and an updated version of the zoning. MR. EDWARDS: Yeah, that's MR. BURDITT: I think that's a challenge for CPDC. MR. EDWARDS: It is. I think that's already MR. BURDITT: I think they have accepted that and after our discussion that is. MR. EDWARDS: Dick already conveyed to CPDC, although they do have a few other things on the front burner right now. MR. BURDITT: I'm sure. MS. ZIEGLER: As we discussed our problems with computer service and all that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah, okay. MR. BURDITT: But, again, the reason we're pushing some of this is is so that the selectman can get any proposed changes on the town meeting. MR. EDWARDS: Why don't you write a zoning bylaw again telling us what you want and DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1.3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 we'll do it. MR. BURDITT: No, no, no. We asked you to review it and what we're trying to do is so that you we can get this out for bid, we can take care of anything that needs to be taken care of by town by town meeting such as any zoning changes. MR. EDWARDS: But bear in mind, what might be an unacceptable use on this property is not necessarily unacceptable in another property in a district. MR. BURDITT: What we're saying, we're not trying to change it. This might give you some time if there is time to bring something up before the fall town meeting that might have an impact here. That would be nice. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The thing I take away from this, Bill, is that if someone is a perspective bidder MR. BURDITT: Mm-hmm. MR. VAN MAGNESS: and as they look at what their use is in today's world in conformance with Business B district MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: that shouldn't DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 56 1. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 automatically disqualify them from submitting a bid but that they should recognize that they have to spell out if there is a desired change required in Business B and the Town doesn't decide to go along with that, then obviously their bid is null and void. MR. BURDITT: But what we talked about last week were some of the things that we thought would be desired that could be in zone B. Maybe CPDC can come up with something to bring before town meeting. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No problem with th-at. MR. BURDITT: So it's not in conflict, I think what I was trying to tell Jonathan a few minutes ago MR. VAN MAGNESS: I agree with that. MR. BURDITT: if there is time. Time is short so MR. EDWARDS: The close is October 11 and there is time. MS. ZIEGLER: MR. EDWARDS: MS. ZIEGLER: October 11? Yeah. Six weeks before town DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 meeting. MR. EDWARDS: That got changed. MR. PACING: They pushed the one in the fall back because of the it was right up against Labor Day. That really wasn't enough time. MR. EDWARDS: We are going to need to know what you want. MS. ZIEGLER: It's definitions, a lot of those definitions are kind of vague. MR. BURDITT: I think part of it is a review of what is allowable under zone B. MR. PACINO: Look at zone B. They talked about computers. If you've got a software development company that wants to come in there, you could interpret that Business B as they're not allowed in there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: In any of the areas in Business B. MR. MR. what's Cerretani's MR. MR. wanted to come int PACINO: Right. VAN MAGNESS: What zoned at, Business EDWARDS: They are VAN MAGNESS: What o Cerretani's as a if somebody B? Business B. if somebody computer DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 58 1 manufacturer in that area and wanted to do some 2 small software, Business B would say no. 3 MR. EDWARDS: That absolutely by law 4 hasn't been updated, some of the uses that are not 5 offensive now used to be before technology changed. 6 MR. BROWN: We had a little guy that 7 wanted to build computers in Reading. He went up to 8 Lowell. A fellow by the name of Wang. I don't know 9 whatever happened to him but 10 MR. EDWARDS: We do know what 11 happened to Lowell. 12 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. 13 MR. BROWN: They're coming back 14 though. 15 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Where are we on 16 this? I think aren't we saying as far as we're 17 concerned, while CPDC is going forward with 18 relooking at permitted uses within the zoning 19 districts, it shouldn't encumber anybody from 20 putting in a request for 21 MR. EDWARDS: No, for two reasons. 22 First of all, the bylaw can be changed through CPDC 23 in a town meeting and use variances are allowed to 24 be given, as long as it's not detrimental to the f DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 area and it's entirely legal. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So that just says to me there's no reason for us to be concerned about needing to suggest a proposed change to the zoning at this point in time. MR. EDWARDS: You wouldn't if let's say a very desirable, good, best acceptable bidder came in and it was for something that was either questionable in the zoning or not allowed, but it was decided by those selecting plus representatives from the wide variety of interests that that-was--the best desirable bid and best acceptable and theuse was very acceptable from all respects, it could be accepted contingent upon the obtaining of a zoning covered use variance. MS. ZIEGLER: And we could go to ZBA and support it. MR. EDWARDS: Then you make your case before the Board of Appeals. On the other hand, any thoughts you've got about the appropriateness of that table of uses, let us know, please. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Send them in. MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 60 MR. EDWARDS: Send those cards and letters. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Not through the Chronicle. MR. EDWARDS: That's all right too. MR. BROWN: I think I'd still like to have either even though it doesn't perhaps pertain to this I would still like to have defining on parking lot. MR. EDWARDS: I can't give it to you tonight. MR. BROWN: No, no, but you can pass it along. I think it's MR. EDWARDS: The depo? MR. BROWN: Yeah. As I recall I don't think we ever solved the 300 feet question at the town meeting. MR. EDWARDS: No. I think that article was tabled. MR. BROWN: Yeah, it was, and it just wandered off into the darkness as we often do. MR. BURDITT: Ask the bylaw committee. MR. PACING: That's CPDC's. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: Okay. MR. PACING: We do not initiate zoning bylaws. `c'hat's CPDC's prerogative. Do you want to follow that up with Ted, John, or do you want me to? MR. EDWARDS: With the 300 feet? MR. PACINO: Yeah. MR. EDWARDS: If you would like to, fine. MR. PACINO: Why don't I follow it up. I'm sure you've got more than enough to do. MR. EDWARDS: In the next day and I'll be on vacation next week. MR. PACINO: Right. MR. BURDITT: You are on tomorrow, so you'll be there tomorrow night? MR. EDWARDS: I'm the star witness. (Discussion off record) MR. PACING: Why don't we take the agenda. We have the July 28 minutes. MR. BURDITT: I'll be honest, I haven't read them all. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Motion to accept the minutes of July 28, 1994. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. ~r 'k 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 63 MR. PACING: You're right. We can't approve them. MR. BURDITT: It's minutes of the discussion is what it says here. MR. PACINO: Minutes of the discussion, she's right. We should not do a formal approval. MS. ZIEGLER: It's just information. MR. PACINO: We reviewed the information from the prior three meetings on that. MR. BURDITT: We just did. MR. PACINO: We reviewed and discussed the reuse option on the board up there. We reviewed and discussed restrictions on the property that we had up there. We reviewed and discussed any zoning changes, that was what we had up on the board up there. So where I see we are coming down to now is the point of the appraisal at this point. Others feel we're at a different point here or want more information or are we at discussing the appraisal? MR. BURDITT: I think we need more information on the parking. MR. PACINO: Right. And I'll follow DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that up with the with Ted. A, B, C, best use need the value of to build MS. ZIEGLER: D, E, F's. He'll g of the land and the value of the land. the property if the something else. We don't need all these ive us the value for the building, and we'll The value of the building is demolished MR. PACINO: Right now what I had, I mean, Mo and I gave Jim a few ideas and Jim took a crack at the RFP. MR. BLOMLEY: I just want to explain the first two items that we have. A and B are specific only because of our record keeping process. We have to keep the building and the land separate. MS. ZIEGLER: Oh, really. MR. BLOMLEY: If the sale takes place, land is not a depreciated item. We have to make sure, we have to present that to the Department of Public Utilities in that form. MR. PACING: That's right. MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. MR. BLOMLEY: As far as the plan value is concerned. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 65 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I didn't understand D. And I guess the concern I had with D is the 85 percent land use parking. That says 15 percent of the property can be building and 85 percent is parking. I guess I didn't understand that. MR. BLOMLEY: The zoning as we understood it when we did our study on the property and presented it to town meeting, we had to we're required we're required to provide options before we made before the board made a decision to move to Ash Street. We had to do three options of which we did five. MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. MR. BLOMLEY: One of those was that a --building can cover 85 percent of the Ash of the Haven Street lot as we understood the zoning at that time and as we presented it. MR. EDWARDS: MR. BLOMLEY: MR. EDWARDS: Jim. I'm relating to I'll pipe in when you're done. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The concern I there is plenty to discuss here. This says 85 percent land use parking. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 66 MR. EDWARDS: It should say lot coverage. MR. BLOMLEY: I can it isn't that is I realize that isn't clear, but I can explain the intent on that. It was that you could cover you could cover 85 percent of the land with a structure which would include a parking structure and office structure. In other words, you could have two stories, leave the existing building as it is, add onto it, go up three stories but have the first two levels parking. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess I'd like to"-- I don't like the words there. I would like to change it. MR. BLOMLEY: That doesn't have to be in there. That was from the previous appraisal. MR. EDWARDS: Probably it just might want to quote the zoning directly, it's 85 percent lot coverage. MS. ZIEGLER: Does that include parking? MR. EDWARDS: Yeah, and it could include a parking structure. MS. ZIEGLER: Or plain parking. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 67 MR. EDWARDS: Plain surface parking is not a structure so it's MS. ZIEGLER: Outside of the 85 percent? MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. MR. PACING: Jonathan, how should that read? MS. MR. might as well give only 320 feet rear existing structure MR. setback. ZIEGLER: I'd take it out. EDWARDS: What I would do, you the zoning perimeters. There are setback for new structure, being grandfathered. VAN MAGNESS: 20 percent rear MR. EDWARDS: Right. Who has got the zoning book. Either 25 or 45 feet height limit. I just happen to forget. Bill, do you have one here? And 85 percent lot coverage. MR. PACING: So you're saying that issue should hold part of the I don't know if it's in there. It may not be in there. MR. EDWARDS: I believe it's 45 feet height limit. MR. PACINO: Can you check on that, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Jim? You can check on that. MR. EDWARDS: If you've got the full bylaw, it says there, table 512. MR. BROWN: I think we've got it in the back of the bylaws. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think we need D because if that's the best use, that will come under F. MR. EDWARDS: Well, appraisers always want to know zoning, the best legal use of the land. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. MR. EDWARDS: And legal includes zoning and perimeters. They are going to want to know what it is. MS. ZIEGLER: If it is going to be the value or the best use of the land and the building, he is going to come up and say okay, the best the highest value you're going to get is to keep the building as it is or it's going to be to keep the to tear down the building and put a three-story structure or else build over the perimeters two stories up. So you don't really need you don't need MR. EDWARDS: The appraiser if you DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 69 t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 don't tell them, an appraiser respondent, a perspective appraiser doesn't ask you what the zoning is, don't hire that appraiser because the law dictates that it's the highest bid and best use, that's it's not the highest and best use, period. MR. BURDITT: So this is helpful. It doesn't hurt us. MS. ZIEGLER: To me D and F are the same. MR. EDWARDS: I'm not trying to quibble, Mollie, but MR. BURDITT: It just helps explain the situation. MR. PACING: We're restricted. I remember something on the original acceptance. We're restricted to accepting a final bid that is not lower than the appraisal. MR. BURDITT: Right. Absolutely. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. MR. PACINO: You want to make sure they understand what the zoning is MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. PACINO: on that. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 70 MR. PACING: And that was 20 foot rear setback, whatever, the 25 or 45 foot. MR. EDWARDS: 35 or 45 foot high. MR. VAN MAGNESS: In the original zoning thing package it's 45 feet. MR. PACING: 45 feet. MR. VAN MAGNESS: 45. MR. BROWN: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's from the last appraisal. MR. PACING: Okay. MR VAN MAGNESS: They quote the MR. BROWN: It is 45 feet. MR. PACINO: Yeah. MS. ZIEGLER: The town meeting thing. MR. PACING: No, the actual (Discussion off record) MS. ZIEGLER: Maybe we better have all these appraised values for different uses because we can't sell it for less than the appraised value. MR. BROWN: explain the reasons why. MR. PACINO: You can, but you have to Jim, what we could do DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 under the original on the Meridith McGugh page nine is put an actual chart in here on the zoning, I think if we cover that similar to that page. MS. ZIEGLER: Make sure it's up to date. MR. PACING: Make sure it's up to date, I think similar to that page there. I'll pass it down. You want to pass that down. MR. BLOMLEY: I think we asked the question. MR. PACING: We tried to put something like that similar to that in there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is there any advantage to us in this whole process of requesting an update of this original of this appraisal that was performed before? I mean, there is a lot of work that probably is in here that doesn't need to be restated by some new firm coming in. Has the intention been to provide this prior appraisal in that, you know, we would like to incorporate into the new appraisal as much of that as is still valid and usable to lower the cost to the RMLD? MR. BROWN: I don't believe they can. MR. BLOMLEY: I discussed that with DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 72 1 Len and the conclusion was they're going to do it 2 all over again anyway. Even if you hire the same 3 firm, you're going to pay the same price. That was 4 the conclusion. So I did discuss that with Len. 5 MS. ZIEGLER: Could we put some of 6 that information in the RFP? 7 MR. BLOMLEY: Simply because it's 8 1989, it's not 1994. 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. 10 MR. EDWARDS: Just one quick thing. 11 If you do have a little blurb in the RFP about the 12 zoning, it probably would be helpful to state that 13 the current building is grandfathered with regard to 14 the rear setback. 15 MR. PACINO: The current building? 16 MR. EDWARDS: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. PACINO: Jim. 18 MR. BLOMLEY: On that same line last 19 week we had asked the question we didn't receive an 20 answer on, if they add onto that building, add 21 stories to the building, does the second floor and 22 third floor have to have a 24-foot setback. 23 MR. EDWARDS: I thought I gave you an 24 answer. The answer is yes, they do. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 73 MR. BLOMLEY: All right. MS. ZIEGLER: We can tell that by the Atlantic Zoning Board of Appeals thing. MR. EDWARDS: Actually, that's the Supreme Court case last January. It used to be that it didn't, but because of that court case any new part of the structure must conform with the zoning setback. MS. ZIEGLER: How about if you go to ZBA? MR. EDWARDS: Well, you could ask for a setback variance, but you can't tell what you can't state what the zoning bylaw is by imagining what kind of variances the Board of Appeals might be willing to give or, you know, you don't have any firm zoning. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is the ownership of 25 Haven Street the RMLD or Town of Reading? MR. BLOMLEY: Presently it's the it's owned by the Town of Reading under the controlled Municipal Light board. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Shouldn't we say here where it says specifics, the owner, should it say Town of Reading? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 74 2. MR. PACINO: Clearly whoever is going 2 to get it is going to want clear title. 3 MR. BLOMLEY: Which line is that? 4 MR. PACINO: If we look on the front 5 page, you have on the bottom of the page specifics 6 on real estate. We talk about the property. 7 MR. BLOMLEY: It says Town of Reading 8 Municipal Light Department. 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is it the Town of 10 Reading or the Municipal Light Department? 11 MR. BLOMLEY: It's under the control -12 of the Municipal Light board. I can put that. 13 MR. BURDITT: But the owner is the 14 Town? 15 MR. BLOMLEY: Yes. 16 MR. BURDITT: You should probably put 17 that. 18 MR. PACINO: Put Town of Reading. 19 You put presently under the control of the Municipal 20 Light board Light Department. 21 MR. BLOMLEY: Sure. 22 MR. EDWARDS: Should you state is 23 the shack still there? Should you state that's not 24 to be included? E DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 75 t;. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. PACINO: That's an interesting question. What was the name of the track them down for this meeting. There is a Mr. Paul Sweeney who is requesting that the taxi stand, quote, the 350 building that's there be transferred to the Town and be kept by the Town as a kind of a regular fund-raising type of building. MR. BURDITT: I don't know, it needs to be transferred. I think it is Town property, isn't it? Isn't that on the Municipal Light Department property which is Town property? MR. EDWARDS: We have to get Mrs. Spaulding's rent check. MR. BURDITT: But I think that MR. PACING: Do you remember, Jim, if that property is that property on the same I believe that is Town property. MR. BLOMLEY: It's on the it's part of that parcel. MR. PACINO: Okay. MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. MR. PACING: But, I mean, he is proposing to have that as a fund-raising type of building. I talked to Peter Heckenbeckle. Peter's DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 opinion is he doesn't want it. He doesn't want to be he is concerned about the liability and the maintenance of the building. (Discussion off record) MR. PACING: Peter H is sufficient, town manager. MR. VAN MAGNESS: On page two there was just a question of page one, again, the square footage of the building if you want to be as precise here, it was 6,840 they think. This has 6,900. I'm not sure which is right. MR. BLOMLEY: It is the 68 number. I'll correct that. MR. PACINO: Okay. MR. BURDITT: Maybe the little shack is 60 feet, maybe that's the difference. MR. BROWN: You can always put approximate, more or less, that's an estimate. MR. VAN MAGNESS: On page two I was just confused here. It says parking facilities for 28 vehicles. I saw 24, it says 28. Do we know how many? MR. BLOMLEY: I'll double check that. Again, I think what that is, Fred, is that DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 77 there is 28 spaces, but I don't think there is 28 usable spaces. In other words, there I'll check that again. MR. PACINO: They may be up behind there. There are some spaces that are up behind that kind of go like that, they're not usable. MR. BLOMLEY: If you park there and someone parked the other way, they would be blocking. MR. PACING: You can block somebody. MR. BLOMLEY: I think that's why it says 24 on there. MS. ZIEGLER: Do we need to put there is an underground oil tank in the parking lot? MR. BLOMLEY: No. MR. BROWN: How about the utility easement, should that be noted? MR. BLOMLEY: They are on the plans. MR. BROWN: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The only other I didn't like the wording in the last paragraph. MR. BLOMLEY: What? MR. VAN MAGNESS: I agree with the concept.. I understand what you're saying, but it DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 says they'll be completed and be retained by the appraisal firm in confidence and sealed by the Town general manager. There is nothing in the report it shall be disclosed to anyone outside the firm until requested by the in writing by the Town of in other words, this says it shall be retained in confidence until i't's requested from him; but I mean, for example, could the general manager call up and say what did you guys come up with for a value? MR. BLOMLEY: Could he, yes. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And I think what we really want we don't want anyone to have access to that information until we have gotten the bids. MR. BLOMLEY: I think MR. VAN MAGNESS: True? MR. PACINO: Yeah. MR. BLOMLEY: I'll check that out with the general manager. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I understand what you're trying to get to. I think I agree fully with it, but I don't want anybody to have the value. MR. BLOMLEY: But as the general manager, I'll check with him as to what his you know, what the rights are under that. I don't want DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 79 to you know, I want to get that clarified with Len. MR. PACINO: He wants to clear it with Len, he has certain rights. MR. VAN MAGNESS: To know what the value is? MR. MR. MR. MS. MR. Do we not want him PACING: BLOMLEY: PACINO: ZIEGLER: PACINO: to have Right, he may. Right. Under chapter 64. Why would he He has certain rights. --hose rights? If we tell Len no MS. ZIEGLER: We can't have them, why should anybody? MR. BLOMLEY: Well, there is a different setup, laws that govern the Municipal Light Department. MS. MR. would go under the Municipal Light pr MR. preclude him from ZIEGLER: Yeah, I know. BURDITT: I think we said we Uniform Procurement Act, not the ocurement. BLOMLEY: But that doesn't Len from having that DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 information. MR. BURDITT: As long as it's within the proper codes of the Procurement Acts. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm just really concerned about the appraisal being done and any values or results of that being discussed that could compromise the integrity of the rapport until such a time as we get the bids in. MR. BLOMLEY: I MR. EDWARDS: We also have a public document law that could cause you trouble. MR. BLOMLEY: You could do this through the attorneys, but I think, you know, what we're running up against here if a problem arises or if there is discussion to be held relative to the appraisal, someone has to handle that; and Len, the general manager of the light department, would be the person that would have to handle that. We can't exclude everybody from having that information if something has to be discussed. MR. VAN MAGNESS: If something has to be discussed, I have no problem with that going on; but what I do have a problem with at the end of the discussion here or the end of the 30 days here and DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 81 x 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 then they put the number on the document for each one of these criteria, I guess I have a problem with somebody knowing what that is until the right time of the process. MR. EDWARDS: The Town handled that by receiving the appraisal and only one person knew what the numbers were or where the books were until after the RFP's were received. MR. BLOMLEY: The intent isn't to the intent isn't to disclose the appraisal. It's to put somebody somebody responsible in charge of requesting the appraisal. That's the intent. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I have no problem with that. MR. EDWARDS: the Public Records Act. And the basis if somebody didn't document, they couldn't requ know. Bill is going to blab place. But, Jim, be careful of we had to proceed on know there was a est it. So I don't this all over the MR. BLOMLEY: Can you have the attorneys request MR. PACINO: You understand the concerns. Can you discuss them with Len and come up DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 with an appropriate solution? MR. BLOMLEY: Yes, I'll come MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't have a problem with Lennie at all. I just know that the fax machines and, you know, you never know. MS. ZIEGLER: Bill, the in-formation highway. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. (Discussion off record) MR. PACING: Okay. Is there anything else on the appraisal? MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess I would like to know when is this going out? How soon? MR. BLOMLEY: I don't have any idea. I'll talk to Len. MS. ZIEGLER: Did we want to approve it? MR. PACINO: Do we want to approve the final copy? MR. BURDITT: Sure. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That means it's going to wait another week. MR. BLOMLEY: Yeah. MR. PACING: That's the next agenda. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: Are we within a week of getting it all ready? MR. VAN MAGNESS: What more do you want to know about that isn't on this piece of paper already? MR. BURDITT: Just some things we requested that Jim look into, like the MR. EDWARDS: You can get hung up on choice of words. If I'm speaking out of turn, let me know. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No problem. MR. BURDITT: For instance, we're saying this has to be returned within 30 days, then the appraisal. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The appraisal comes back within 30 days, right? MR. BURDITT: But there is time for the RFP to go out and then the appraisal comes out after the RFP comes back, so that's 60 days. Then I think we are talking about having some Town action if required, are we not? And that isn't until November. So I don't know that we're MR. PACING: We're required. MR. BURDITT: In a major hurry DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 until December or January with getting the appraisal back. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Gee, I look at this thing moving a lot quicker than that. I would like to be at the point that the appraisal is ready to go out, we are ready to start beginning to think about what the draft RFP is going to look like, and we can get on the street. I mean, I have had in the back of my mind we ought to be ready with the RFP to present to the Board of Selectmen on September MS. ZIEGLER: 15th. MR. VAN MAGNESS: 15th and ready to issue it at that point in time. MR. BURDITT: I thought the reason for the September 15 was so the selectmen could take any action required for town meeting. Now, are we saying that there is no action required of town meeting? And if there is, then absolutely we can go on the 15th to the selectmen and the selectmen can make a decision. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So far I haven't seen anything that we have asked from town meeting. MR. PACING: I think we come up with if we have changes, we can make the RFP. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. EDWARDS: Can't the two proceed concurrently? MR. PACING: That's what Jim just caught my ear over here. You say it will not be a problem if we wait until the next meeting to approve the appraisal and the RFP goes out from there it won't slow up the process any? MS. ZIEGLER: So will they have a 30-day turnaround or 45-day turnaround for the RFP for their proposals to come in for us to look at? MR. EDWARDS: There are two aspects of the appraisal. MR. PACINO: One at a time. Jim and then John. MR. BLOMLEY: This is a request for professional service. So they would be getting quotation and mail it out to the firms. It doesn't require a formal advertising. MR. EDWARDS: Although it could. MR. BLOMLEY: It could, but it doesn't require that. MR. EDWARDS: Are you subject to central register requirements? MR. BLOMLEY: Not for this. For the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 RFP you are. MR. EDWARDS: All right. MR. PACINO: Are we under the Uniform Procurement Acts? MR. BLOMLEY: MR. EDWARDS: state clearing codes. Yes. You are subject to the MR. BLOMLEY: I think we are mixing up the two items. The appraisal is entirely separate from the RFP. MR. EDWARDS: The appraisal is two steps. There is appraiser RFP, and then there is appraisal by however many appraisers, your word based on RFP's, then there is the property RFP; and those two major things can go concurrently. I don't know much about DPU stuff, but I would caution you to be real careful about 30B, and about, you know, the Clearing House, the State Clearing House requirements. And that could be advantageous to you anyway to have that extra publicity and you might square up a good appraisal out of the woodwork. MR. BLOMLEY: Obviously that will have to be clarified. I realize what 30B applies to as far as the RFP is concerned. I'll look into it a DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 87 little bit more. As far as the appraisal, it says must obtain an appraisal. It doesn't say follow the form of that as it does for the RFP. The problem that we run up against in following that is that you won't be able to maintain a quick time frame because it takes you have to submit it two weeks prior to its advertising date in order to get it into the central register. Then it's got to be advertised in there it's got to be in there for 30 days. MR. EDWARDS: Everybody says we're suppose to run like a business. Give us the same laws and we will. MR. BLOMLEY: So that will put us into a time frame somewhere up in November, December by the time you get through the MR. EDWARDS: Could be as an exception for certain types of professional services, in which case based on the estimated amount, like if it's above or below ten thousand, there is a different procedure and some of them are very much streamline. MS. ZIEGLER: He's talking about 30B for the sale of the property not for the professional service. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 88 MR. EDWARDS: 30B applies to both. MR. BLOMLEY: I haven't been given my instructions on the RFP from the general manager. MR. EDWARDS: Okay. MR. BLOMLEY: There are two ways that it can be done. The first way I just explained. The second way is going through the advertising process. MR. EDWARDS: Mm-hmm. MR. BLOMLEY: I don't know what I'm going to be instructed to do by the general manager. MR. EDWARDS: Okay. MR. BLOMLEY: But the timing elements of that are quite different, extremely different. You're going to have at least a minimum of six weeks just in your advertising requirements before you can even entertain the hiring of a qualified appraiser if you go through that process and the same thing with the RFP. MR. EDWARDS: Yeah, plus you then have to go through a formal process to justify the chase based on an appraiser. MR. BLOMLEY: That's if you don't select the lowest. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. MS. ZIEGLER: Now, if you go through the first process without going through the advertising, what kind of deadline what turnaround I mean, you're going to you would send this out to certain appraisal firms, right? MR. BLOMLEY: Yes. MS. ZIEGLER: Then how long do they have for the figure to turn the figure back into you of what it's going to cost, ten days, two weeks? MR. BLOMLEY: MS. ZIEGLER: was trying to ask. Two weeks. Okay. That's what I MR. BLOMLEY: Two weeks is our normal, the normal amount of time that we allow for MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. MR. BLOMLEY: turnaround. I believe you can do it within a week's period, but we have never done that because of the mail and everything else. You just can't turn it around that quick. We always use two weeks. MS. ZIEGLER: So we would want to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 make the appraisal get RFP is being worked on so everything is up to going on with the real MR. BLO advantage to that, but would instruct me on. 90 done about the same time the of the buying of the building date. Who knows what is estate market now. MLEY: I think there is an that will be something Len MR. EDWARDS: How long do we give the appraiser to do the appraisal, Jim? MS. ZIEGLER: 30 days. MR. BLOMLEY: 30 days. I'm only taking that from the previous appraisal. MR. EDWARDS: If you don't have to go through the whole central register 30B deal, then you're looking at five to six weeks. MR. VAN MAGNESS: From the start, yeah. MR. EDWARDS: For MR. VAN MAGNESS: the appraisal, but you're right, concurrent with the thing. MS. ZIEGLER: You concurrent with the bid. Commer doing crazy things. the appraisal. Yeah, just to get that could go want the values cial property is DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1.3 1.-4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. EDWARDS: You want the appraisal in hand before you have the proposals in hand. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But we don't want it six months in advance of that either. MR. BURDITT: No. MS. ZIEGLER: That's right. MR. EDWARDS: I would start charting out the RFP process and fit the appraisal process into that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah, I think that's a good idea. I agree with you. MR. BROWN: Next meeting, RFP. MS. ZIEGLER: We need a time schedule, timeline. MR. EDWARDS: Starting here. MR. PACINO: I'm printing this up to the next meeting. MR. BROWN: Phil, before we get into time, I think the member from the citizen's board has not been here. Maybe they should be sent a note, to the citizen's advisory. MR. BURDITT: He's aware of it. I talked to him. MR. BLOMLEY: They were called. Each DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 92 member has been called on each of the last two meetings. MR. BURDITT: I talked to him at the open house we had. He totally forgot about the meeting two meetings ago. He told me he would be out of town the last meeting, and I didn't hear anything. So he's well aware of all of the meetings. MR. BROWN: Okay. MR. BURDITT: Because he stayed down to the Cape too long or something and by the time he came up he forgot he had a meeting that night. MR. BROWN: That's right, just as long as the CAB is aware. MR. BURDITT: He's their representative chosen by them. He's been aware of the meetings. MR. BLOMLEY: He has all the documents. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So somewhere at this document or somewhere you're going to have the bids are due, to who they go to, and got to be back not later than "X" time period on such and such a date? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 phone call, there are only two people that would be impacted. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Going back to this for one last second, there will be something at the bottom of this saying where the bids go and what the time and date are that we expect them back by. MR. BLOMLEY: Yes, I can do that. It depends on the process that I'm instructed to use. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. I mean, that will be MR. BLOMLEY: If this goes out as a formal process, there is probably another 30 pages that get attached to this. And I will I will discuss that with the general manager. We have a specific boiler plate that goes on all documents that.go out as a public bid. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I see. MS. ZIEGLER: Paperwork. MR. BLOMLEY: It requires the insurance. We have very stringent insurance requirements, all of the affidavits and all of the indemnity clauses. So it's quite different than these two pages, and I'll clarify that for you. MR. PACINO: Okay. Let's move on to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 95 1 the next meeting now. Time and date, do we want to 2 meet next week? 3 MR. BROWN: I think we should. 4 MR. PACING: Good for everybody? 5 MR. BURDITT: Let's go through the 6 agenda first. 7 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm thinking of 8 something he just said. 9 MR. PACING: Go ahead. 10 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sorry to I'm 11 slow tonight. If this does not go out under the 50 12 pounds of paper routine, should we have something in 13 this request that says that bidders shall provide 14 evidence of indemnification or insurance to protect 15 the Town from liability? What if this guy decides 16 to walk through the old building and trips over 17 something and falls or the building 18 MS. ZIEGLER: Blows up? 19 MR. PACING: Or the building falls 20 down? 21 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think it's 22 something you ought to discuss with the general 23 manager. 24 MR. BURDITT: As least we know you're DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 96 not going to have it as a reuse of the existing facility. That's a positive. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I want to know that the person has adequate insurance. MS. ZIEGLER: Oh, we do. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, you know MS. ZIEGLER: He's going to be taken through the building with the representatives. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. MR. BLOMLEY: We always require an insurance certificate. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So shouldIn't we say that should come in with the bid? MR. BLOMLEY: We don't we can do that. We don't normally do that. We wait until MR. VAN MAGNESS: You select them. MR. BLOMLEY: the firm is selected, then we require them to provide that within "X" number of days. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think that's okay because you don't want to put the losers through a lot of rigmarole, but you could put a statement in here, the selected candidate or winner of this round, okay, will be required to provide evidence of DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3= 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. ZIEGLER: (Nods). MR. VAN MAGNESS: (Nods). MR. PACING: That's what, the 25th? MR. VAN MAGNESS: 24th. MS. ZIEGLER: 24th. Today is the 17th. MR. PACING: Do we want to stick with 6:30? That seems to be pretty good. Place, here? MR. BROWN: Yeah, why not. Agenda, review the RFP. MR. PACINO: Review the RFP. MS. ZIEGLER: We need a time line too. line. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Good point. Time MS. ZIEGLER: And work back. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We started one one time, we had someone or a time line somewhere. MR. BROWN: September 15 is our deadline. MS. ZIEGLER: But we have other deadlines beyond that. MR. PACINO: Time line. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's an RFA. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ' 21 22 23 24 MR. PACING: P. MS. ZIEGLER: P. MR. PACINO: That's the wrong one, isn't it? You see, Fred, you should be up here writing, not me. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We're switching. Your turn this week. MR. PACING: Wrong one. I was thinking time line. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Appraisal RFQ. MR. BURDITT: RFP or RFQ. MR. EDWARDS: Call it RFS so you don't get it mixed up. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sure. MR. EDWARDS: Request for service. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah, RFS, sure. MR. EDWARDS: Keep the terminology straight. MR. PACING: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm going to throw out a couple of ideas. Okay? MR. PACINO: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We need to try and get a draft at some point in time of a report of DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. c 1( 1] l~ 14 1E 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 100 1 where we have been, what we have done, how we have 2 done the things we have done here for September 15, 3 and that's only like three weeks away from the next ( meeting. i MR. EDWARDS: Can I suggest something i again. If you're going to be talking about the ' scheduling of the RFS, it really should go about in 3 the context of the RFP schedule; and you might want to review the form and content of the RFS. I wouldn't start figuring out when you want to send out until you have the RFP. MR. BURDITT: That's the time line. MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's the time line. That is what you said based on the process down the road. I agree with you. MR. EDWARDS: The other thing, if there is less time between when you get the when the appraisals are due, there is less likelihood of time to spill the beans. MR. VAN MAGNESS: True, and then hope you will have more convergence on the value you should be looking for. MR. BLOMLEY: We'll just prepare the documents and leave the date off. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. MS. ZIEGLER: Oh, yeah. MR. PACING: We yeah. MR. BURDITT: We need to prepare what the time line is, what we want to see, some kind of a schedule. MR. BLOMLEY: I'll do that in conjunction with the Procurement Act. MR. PACINO: Why don't you do that, put something together on a draft. MS. ZIEGLER: And also put down certain items that we have to do and how long it's going to take, like the advertising and for the RFP how long that's going to take, so many weeks for advertising. MR'. BURDITT: Again, I think that's the time line. MS. ZIEGLER: There are some key things that we need to know before we start our time line. We know the appraisal is going to take 30 days. MR. BURDITT: need specific calendar dates. MS. ZIEGLER: The time line might not It does. It needs DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 both. MR. BURDITT: Well, I think what we need is a time line with one week, two weeks, three weeks, and then we can put dates against them when we meet. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Could I suggest that maybe the department could come up with a draft time line. Oh, you've got it there. Let's give a couple criteria here. Let's assume that we have a draft RFP on September 15. Then there should be like, you know, 30 days or whatever for review with the Board of Selectmen, comments back, blah, blab, blah, and then you know to MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And assuming like October 15 the RFP could go out, then what are we looking at for a time line? MR. BURDITT: Why do we need to put September 15 or October 15? We could say week one, week two, week three. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You can do it that way too. MR. BURDITT: If you it slips two weeks or whatever. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I've got no problem with that, however they want to come up with it. MR. PACINO: So the draft RFP is ready by September 15 we're saying? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Or it could be to what Bill pointed out, that's like week one, you know, I don't care how you do it. MR. BURDITT: Four weeks for this review, and then it's after that it's two weeks for this and six weeks for that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm okay with that. That's a fine way to do it. MR. BLOMLEY: It's pretty specific once you start the process. So if I do it RFP is going to be presented by the committee to the selectmen on September 15 with a review period to take up to October 15, and we started it at at that point all we have to do is push it ahead. Once the process starts it goes. So we can just slide it ahead a week and it will MR. EDWARDS: Are the selectmen going to need a month? MR. BURDITT: We don't know. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The other thing I'm DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 104 thinking about, this committee made such great progress that we ought to be able between the 24th of August and the 15th of September to get a draft RFP put together, a report of all of the activities in this committee; and then when we go to the selectmen and say we finished our work, here is the draft RFP MR. BROWN: Now, it's your ball game. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. MR. BROWN: I agree. Don't drag it out. MR. PACINO: All right. Preliminary. And we can start preliminary draft reports where we stand. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And I think people really respect the process 60 days and we've got this far in 30 days, whatever we spent. MR. PACINO: What else under the agenda? Anything else? MR. BROWN: Can we invite Jonathan again? MR. EDWARDS: Why? All I do is occupy space. MS. ZIEGLER: He won't be here. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. T- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 105 MR. EDWARDS: I'm going to be 800 miles away. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Who is going to do a draft RFP? MR. PACING: The department. MR. EDWARDS: Don't see that hand real. h.r gh MR. VAN MAGNESS: Would it be appropriate to say we'd like to see a draft so we can start working on it by next Wednesday? MR. BLOMLEY: Yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Good. That's great. MR. PACINO: Can you make that? MR. BLOMLEY: I'm going to plagiarize what I have. MS. ZIEGLER: Oh, yeah, there is plenty in that book. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. I agree with it. MR. PACINO: Please don't use plagiarize in the minutes. You're going to adapt. MR. BLOMLEY: Adapt. Adapt. (Discussion off record) DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. PACINO: All right. MR. BURDITT: One other thing, Paul Sweeney or MR. PACING: Do we want to have Mr. Sweeney in the next meeting? MR. BURDITT: Is he the one requesting that? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Who is he? MR. BURDITT: Keep the shack. MR. PACINO: On the shack, the taxi stand, the 350 building. MS. ZIEGLER: Invite him. If he doesn't come, he doesn't come. MR. VAN MAGNESS: What do we want to know from him? MR. BURDITT: He is requesting we keep that for any future fund-raising. MR. ZIEGLER: We can sell Girl Scout cookies there. MR. PACINO: Do we want to get Mr. Sweeney to make his presentation to us? MR. BROWN: Sure. MS. ZIEGLER: It's PR. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sure. DORIS M. JONES &.ASSOCIATES, INC. 107 1 (Discussion off record) 2 MR. PACINO: Will you track him down 3 and try to get him to come to the next meeting? 4 MR. BLOMLEY: Sure. It's Paul? 5 MR. PACINO: Yeah, Paul Sweeney is 6 his name. Ask him to come to the meeting. 7 (Discussion off record) 8 MR. PACING: All right. I think 9 we've got that's a pretty full agenda. 10 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Motion to adjo urn. 11 MR. KENNEDY: Second. 12 MR. BURDITT: Bill already made that. 13 MR. PACINO: All those in favor of 14 adjourning on that say I. 15 (All members respond I) 16 (Whereupon the meeting was adjourned 17 at 8:39 p.m.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC.