HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-08-24 ad Hoc Haven Street Task Force Minutes1
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COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
TOWN OF READING
25 HAVEN STREET SALE
TASK FORCE
MEETING MINUTES
Wednesday, August 24, 1994
230 Ash Street
Reading, Massachusetts
Commence: 6:36 p.m.
Pages: 1 to 117
Reporter: Tracy D. Helms
DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC.
Professional Shorthand Reporters
59 Temple Place
Boston, Massachusetts 02111
(617) 542-0039
DORIS M. JONES& ASSOCIATES, INC.
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PRESENT:
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NAME
AFFILIATION
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Philip Pacino,
Reading Municipal
as Chairman
Light Department
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William C. Brown
Citizen at Large
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Mollie Ziegler
Board of Assessors
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William Burditt
Selectman
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Fred Van Magness
FinCom
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Hartnell Bartlett
RMLD CAB
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Len Rucker
RMLD
L Also present:
Paul Sweeney
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particular day in December where I worked the booth
and sold probably close to $6,000 worth of product
in that one day.
Realizing and not wanting to go back on
our word that we would abide by the board's opinion
to dismantle the building after we were completed
using it, I approached Len Rucker and asked him just
what he thought of as far as since the building
wasn't ours if they would consider selling the land
that the building was on to our committee and the
goal to keep the building and give it or sell it to
the town and leave it there and allow it to be used
by all different nonprofit organizations throughout
the town to fund-raise. He informed me how that
decision would have to, I guess, go through town
meeting.
And shortly thereafter I addressed a
letter to the selectmen through Sally Hoyt who is
the liaison on our group and asked her to run it
through the board of selectman and throw it around
and get their opinion on that. We haven't heard
back from her. I don't know if it's come up at a
MR. BURDITT: I don't recall it
coming up.
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MR. SWEENEY: Okay. Okay.
MR. BURDITT: It's been a few weeks
since we've had a meeting. We get our one, three
week reprieve every three. We usually throw in an
extra one. During the summer we try and have a
meeting every three weeks and it's three out of
four. This is our one time we haven't thrown in an
extra one.
MR. SWEENEY: Okay. That's where we
stand. This isn't even if the Light Board or if
the town meeting came back and said it was
acceptable or they were willing or the selectmen
were w,.:,.'_lli.ng-to have us proceed and follow through
on this, at this point the 350th Steering Committee
is still intact, we are going to be meeting in a few
weeks.
There is some monies that are left over.
We were asked to come back in mid-September and each
of us present our list of where we feel these funds
should be directed and that was one of the areas
that I was given the authority to pursue to see
about the viability of this piece of building. It's
public record through our notes, but the monies that
we're looking at before we call it quits after the
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celebration was probably close to $50,000 that was
left so
MS. ZIEGLER: My gosh. When this all
started back five years ago, they didn't know where
they were going to get the money from.
MR. BURDITT: And they were going to
have a parade.
MR. SWEENEY: That's right. We were
very conservative and it worked out well, but that's
as much as I can report on at this time. John, I'm
open for questions.
MR. PACING: Phil. Phil. John's my
dad
MR. SWEENEY: Sorry.
MR. PACING: That's all right. I did
ask the town manager on the building what his
thoughts were. Peter did tell me that his he had
concerns about the liability of the building being
down and he also had concerns about the maintenance
cost. I got the impression he was not in favor of
retaining the building is the impression that I got,
and I don't know if Bill, if you want to
MR. BURDITT: I agree, and Sally
didn't bring it I can't remember whether it was
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formally or informally and can't remember if it was
brought up. We haven't met for three weeks. I do
know I have had some discussion in saying, the same
as Phil has stated, I'm not sure the town wants the
liability for the next 50 years until we hit our
400th.
I think it's a great idea to have
something, and Mollie wrote a little note, make it
portable. I'm not sure that building should be
portable, but there is a possibility to have
something portable and fund-raising in the town hall
parking lot for the day, on a Saturday or something
like that, get a trailer or something to do
something for fund-raisers. I think we might, you
know, inhibit the value of the property by having
that corner, you know
MR. SWEENEY: Sure.
MR. BURDITT: segregated. So I
think for the total value of the property
MR. SWEENEY: It could be a
hindrance.
MR. BURDITT: Probably could make
another offer to donate it. I think it would draw
down because I'm sure of the size of the property
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MR. SWEENEY: Yeah.
MR. BURDITT: it would draw down
on it.
MR.
MR.
is associated with
MR.
the records zero.
MS.
MR.
MS.
fish market.
PACING: Fred.
VAN MAGNESS: How much land area
this particular building?
RUCKER: Formally on the deed on
ZIEGLER: Was that moved for
BROWN: No.
ZIEGLER: That went up by the
MR. BROWN: No, I called John Stoney,
I thought it might have been.
MS. ZIEGLER: I know when it came to
the town, when Peter couldn't find any records of
why it was there, how she got it
MR. BROWN: I called the guy that had
the one up on the other and he said no, that wasn't
the one.
MR. RUCKER: The property right now
physically occupies about ten by ten.
MR. BURDITT: Yeah.
MR. SWEENEY: 100 square feet.
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MR. RUCKER: Yes. That's probably
generous in terms of it's probably more like eight
by nine.
MR. SWEENEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. BROWN: I kind of share some of
the same concerns perhaps from a different
direction. Having sat at so many town meetings for
so many buildings that we have not taken care of, I
just do not want to see another one fall. I really
don't. We've got a very poor record.
MR. SWEENEY: My goal was naturally
to ask the question.
MR. BROWN: Sure.
MR. SWEENEY: The first and foremost
you have to, you know, answer to the ratepayers and,
you know, if the piece of property is better
marketed with having that as a potential means of
regress to Haven Street, whatever, I understand
that. It's just like I said, it brought so many
people together and working it every other weekend
or whatever was a common place to meet and
MR. BROWN: If the building could be
picked up and moved some other space in town, I
don't think that would be a problem.
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MR. SWEENEY: I don't know if it
would hold up if it was lifted.
MR. RUCKER: I wouldn't want to be
there when it was lifted.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's think though,
you know, let's step out of the box here for a
second. Let's say that in the RFP we suggested an
easement, an easement without a subdivision, or we
decided to take 100 feet of the corner of that
property and let's say there is a greater use for
the 350th, or for, you know, any other charitable
organization that might be running some event and
granted that this is very close in proximity to a
central business district downtown, it might be
something that the 350th Committee might be wanting
to say let's take the building off that site, you
know, let's demolish it and let's create with some
volunteer effort and some contributions maybe a ten
by ten little nicely bricked, nice window, nice
door, little building that could be used for, you
know, the next century. We're going to have a new
celebration here in the year 2000. Maybe there has
been talk about not waiting 50 years in the town.
I mean, what you know, sure, there
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might be a small economic disadvantage; but, you
know, in terms of the RFP we could ask if the
potential buyer would be willing to enter into a
potential subdivision of 100 feet at the corner. I
mean, I don't think there is anything wrong with
asking. And I don't think there is anything wrong
with saying to the 350th Committee or a group of
volunteers in the town let's you know, let's put
a cement slab on that little corner. Let's get
maybe a subdivisional lot, let's get a variance from
the Zoning Board of Appeals.
MR. SWEENEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: And let's put a
little brick permanent structure that might enhance
the localarea that can be used for things.
MR. PACINO: Bill.
MR. BURDITT: I'd rather not. I'd
rather eliminate that. If we want a little
structure, my recommendation would be at the end of
Haven Street take two parking spaces and build a
building. On weekends you've got all the parking in
the world right down there, go straight on into
Haven on that same side of High Street, and you
could put a building there. And people going to the
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trains could so it's, you know, if not as
convenient probably maybe more convenient.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Argumentative at
best.
MR. BURDITT: And not encumbering
this property. You know, that's town owned or MBTA
owned. I'm not sure on that side of High Street
of well, on High Street who owns that piece of
property; but if we want something in that area
MR. PACING: Mollie.
MS. ZIEGLER: Is it on the right side
of Haven Street? I mean, the other side seems to be
a lot busier. There is a lot more stuff going on on
the other side with Atlantic and Brooks.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: We don't know what
that side of Haven Street is going to yield.
MS. ZIEGLER: That's true.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: But if you say it's
on the wrong side, how was the 350th so successful
in utilizing it?
MS. ZIEGLER: They advertised a lot.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm thinking about
the Girl Scouts, Brownies, the Cub Scouts, the X, Y
or Z organization, the town could maybe find a
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potential. use.
MS. ZIEGLER: Might help businesses
on that side of the street too.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah, I hear what
you're saying, Bill, but taking parking spaces away
is something, you know, we don't generally like to
do and putting something down at the railroad
station which is not used on weekends may I'm
just trying to say don't close the door. There may
be an opportunity here that, you know, a hasty
decision might say take it down, we don't want any
liability, blah, blah, blab; but it could be
something that'-- you know, I've seen this community
come together on things that are pretty positive.
MR. BURDITT: The maintenance of the
building would be
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Maybe this would be
just like the Christmas lights on the common, a fund
established
MR. BURDITT: If there is no funds
MR. PACINO: That's where I have the
problem. I mean, we have and, Bill, it's
certainly been one of your issues, you take the
maintenance we have at the community center, we let
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that thing go to disrepair.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: That was the town.
MR. PACING: That was the town.
We're still maintaining this would be the town
building. The town would own this building.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right, but it could
be maintained.
MR. PACINO: I have a problem with
our maintenance record.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: It could be
maintained by a separate fund, like the Christmas
lights on the common or the clock in the Old South
Church or the flags on the flagpole in the common.
MR. BURDITT: No, because you don't
have to put the lights on the trees. Okay.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. I mean
MR. BURDITT: Or you don't have to
reset the clock. But if the roof is caving in,
you've got to do something with the roof or if there
is a leak in the building or if it needs to be
painted.
MS. ZIEGLER: Cleaning. Cleaning.
MR. BURDITT: There is a requirement
there that you can't just close your eyes and say we
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won't do it this year.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: We're talking about
a closet. Okay. We're not talking about a
structure.
MR. BURDITT: I understand.
MR. SWEENEY: Couple of questions, it
looks like we've got a split issue; one, first off,
if it affects the marketability of the piece of
property. The other side is the liability.
On the liability side, can we circumvent
that from the town? Would the Reading Arts Counsel
assume something like that or an organization within
the town where all of these roues that would want
to fund-raise could come in?
MS. ZIEGLER: You could also require
the fund-raisers have their own liability.
MR. PACING: Who is the owner of the
building? That's the question.
MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think you're
talking about what the town could afford, let's talk
about liability. If you want to really play that
game, I mean, we have gigantic liability exposure in
this town with schools, municipal buildings, DPW
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workers crawling all over the place. We're talking
about a ten by ten closet on Haven Street. I mean,
let's not try and go after the fly with an ICBM.
MR. SWEENEY: There is really little
liability. It would be someone outside the building
because there was hardly room for more than two
people inside.
MR. BURDITT: I don't think we're
talking liability, annual expenses.
MR. PACINO: Let's go to Len.
MR. RUCKER: I'm not a member of the
task force or anything, but it occurred to me and I
remember thishappening I believe at North Station,
and what they do over there is the owners of the
building have to agree to lease "X" square feet.
So you could do it would seem like you
could do something like that. In other words,,,who
maintains the building and all that is all I'm
not arguing for or against. I'm making the
observation that you can you can read a
requirement to lease space for a particular purpose
with an entrance on the street or something like
that.
You have to have a lease clause as long as
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you're willing to if you don't pay the lease
clause, it absorbs back in. It's one way you don't
have to put a fund up, you're not having to worry
about maintaining the building. It's like a room
within somebody else's property. They have just
agreed to allow you to use it. I'm not arguing for
or against. I remember that from North Station.
MR. BROWN: Same thing with the
depo. He has to provide if somebody is going to be
in
MR. RUCKER: It's that sort of
concept, yeah.
MR. BROWN: I think Fred might have a
good idea. Throw it out in the RFP. If nothing
comes out of it, so be it.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I wouldn't be
against trying to have that corner. I can see some
potential long-term benefits to the town. Maybe
there is no structure that ends up going back on
that, maybe it's a square patch of 100 square feet
and you put some bricks, put a couple of chairs
and
MS. ZIEGLER: A tent.
MR. SWEENEY: Yeah, a tent or
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I something.
2 MR. VAN MAGNESS: They have these
3 little cabana type tents, pop a tent or put an
4 umbrella up there. You're only talking about
5 occasional use. It cuts the liability, eliminates
6 the maintenance issue but provides a space that's on
7 public property.
8 MR. BARTLETT: If you're talking that
9 type of arrangement, don't you have many businesses
10 if properly approached would be willing to do this
11 rather than
12 MS. ZIEGLER: Atlantic Mall does it.
13 MR. BARTLETT: Rather than having
14 them legally commit to it I suspect you've got
15 many. I hesitate as a member of an outside
16 community to get involved so far as to say if it
17 might have a negative impact on the value of this;
18 however, as the former town official even from a
19 neighboring town I would be very reluctant to have
20 something like this on private property. I would be
21 very reluctant to see my Board of Appeals meet the
22 variance for something like this.
23 And, you know, I think by the way, their
24 committee should be commended. They provided
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L something fantastic for Reading and all the
neighboring communities. Believe me, $50,000 is
fantastic. I think the idea of the portability
because I'm sure there are many business people that
would be very amenable or right on town property.
Certainly in my town I would be reluctant to see a
variance of that type go to a business whether if
that business were to come and ask for it itself,
I'm sure it would be denied.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: A business I was
thinking about it being town owned. I wasn't
thinking about
-MR. BARTLETT: Here again, you have a
nonconforming lot. I realize the town can do
anything it wants on any lot.
MS. ZIEGLER: We have pretty good
like getting to use Atlantic Mall between Brooks and
Atlantic, Girl Scout cookies, raffles, sign ups for
this and that, it's right across the street.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Think about it. It
may not be there.
MR. BARTLETT: You're also fortunate
your town hall is basically in the center too which,
unfortunately, some of them don't relish that
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today. I wish we did but
(Discussion off record)
MR. PACINO: Any other questions or
any questions for Mr. Sweeney? What's our
consensus? Have we reached one?
MS. ZIEGLER: Are you thinking of
putting a gazebo up in the common?
MR. SWEENEY: It may be someone
else's thought to bring that to a
MS. ZIEGLER: That would be a place
to do the same thing except it's kind of far away.
MR. SWEENEY: It's a great idea, the
gazebo; but if you're going to have bands there, I
don't think y.ou're going to hear anything with
traffic whizzing by. I wouldn't turn my back on my
children being out in the common.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Could I give you
one item on that?
MR. SWEENEY: Sure.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Just for input to
your committee if it ever came to pass, the town of
Milton did exactly that. They put a gazebo on their
town common and it was a gorgeous structure.
MS. ZIEGLER: Does Route 28 go by it
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or doesn't it?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Just about. It's
right by the church, except that as soon as they got
it built, someone came and said it's not handicap
accessible. And as a result they have about a 50
foot runway, left dog leg, right dog leg to get to
the gazebo; and it destroyed a significant portion
of their common.
MR. SWEENEY: Would you
MR. BURDITT: That's right.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Think about it.
Even though a I think a gazebo would be great.
MR. BARTLETT: Build it into the
slope.
MR. SWEENEY: Yeah.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Just food for
contemplation.
MR. SWEENEY: No. That's
interesting.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: But I think it
would be perfect.
MR. PACINO: Okay. Any other
discussion on this matter?
MR. BURDITT: Well, I think we've all
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had our say.
MR. PACINO: Okay. Bill, anything?
MR. BROWN: No. I commend the idea,
but again, I look at the history of our town
buildings and I shutter when I think of another
one. Thank you. And I hope not to be around for
town meetings for another 25 years.
MR. PACINO: I kind of shimmer at the
same ideas to be honest with you.
MR. BURDITT: I hope to be.
MR. BROWN: I said at town meetings,
Bill.
MR. BURDITT: Oh, okay.
MR. PACINO: Thanks.
MR. SWEENEY: Thanks everybody. Have
a good evening. Let me know how things work out.
(Discussion off record)
(Mr. Paul Sweeney left meeting)
MR. PACINO: If we wanted to do
something, couldn't we build it into the RFP
process? If we wanted to state they should
negotiate the only way
MR. RUCKER: Could you, yes.
MR. PACINO: If we expand on Fred's
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idea could we say as part of the RFP that they would
negotiate with the group to maybe make a permanent
home or something there?
MR. RUCKER: I think what you do is
put a special condition and the condition would be
that they would provide "X" square feet and whatever
the characteristics of that space for use as
designated by the town. Could you accomplish it,
yes.
MS. ZIEGLER: I think it's too
restrictive.
MR. BURDITT: I do too. And we're
saying that building as it currently stands couldn't
be moved. It's certainly not a viable building to
try and maintain for any number of years. It worked
very well for the purpose of this 350th. And we
thank you very much for the use of the building.
Now the next charity group, you know, hopefully can
find a building or some space to do some charity
work.
MR. RUCKER: I don't know if it was
mentioned before and this was a prior depo meeting
when the issue came up about the 350th wanting to
use that building. The agreement that was made was
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that the RMLD would refurbish it and turn it over.
Therefore, their use on the condition that they
would take it away.
MR. PACINO: Take it away.
MR. RUCKER: Where we didn't hear but
they removed it, and they agreed that was the
stipulation.
MR. PACING: The history of that
building, you knock that building down when it
became vacant, and Len came to me and when I was
chairman and I said why don't we see if somebody
wants to buy it and take it away.
MR. RUCKER: And he said that about
30 minutes before they were getting ready to take it
away.
MR. PACING: That's when the 350th
we did get one bid. Somebody bid I think they
bid 1.19 or something.
MR. RUCKER: 10.19.
MR. BROWN: It would have ended up in
the backyard.
MR. RUCKER: Actually it would. It
would.
MR. BROWN: Ernie Babcock bids on
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everything in town.
MR.
saying the buildin
line I'm hearing.
MR.
MS.
MR.
either way.
PACINO: Basically what we're
g should go. That's the bottom
BURDITT: That's my opinion.
ZIEGLER: Yeah. Sorry, Fred.
VAN MAGNESS: No. I can go
MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think we can
afford to leave it there.
MR. PACING: The only way I could see
it would be if maybe we put a stipulation they would
negotiate.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: They'd rather keep
it clean. It was an idea.
MR. BARTLETT: Depending who takes
it. There may be something more generous when
something comes along, they may be willing to let
them use a parking lot or something, who knows.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think about maybe
they could rent a trailer. You can get small
utility trailers.
MS. ZIEGLER: U-Haul.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Maybe the town
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finds a place to park it during the week.
MR. BURDITT: I think in some
municipal parking lot.
(Discussion off record)
MR. PACING: Why don't we move on. I
would kindof like to restrict us to be done by 8:30
tonight.
MS. ZIEGLER: Thank you.
MR. BURDITT: So would I.
MR. PACINO:
Sturbridge since Sunday.
have a two-hour curfew.
Len and I have been in
So I would kind of like to
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's go.
MR. PACINO: I put up basically the
charts as to what we will the three main charts
as to where we stood on the last time. I think, you
know, for Bart, you have seen pretty much the
mission statement, except we added one item here in
the orange and we went through on that.
MR. BARTLETT: Yeah.
MR. PACING: We also talked about
really what the best acceptable bid meant and the
different items as to what we were thinking of the
criteria for the best acceptable bid on that. And
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E~
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1 we said the agenda for our meeting at the last
2 meeting would be to talk to Mr. Sweeney. I think
3 probably the next thing we ought to take up is the
4 time line, unless, Bart, you have any questions on
5 what is up there.
6 MS. ZIEGLER: We changed from highest
7 bid to best acceptable since we don't have to take
8 the highest bid.
9 MR. PACINO: Right. I think the next
0 thing would be to move on the time line and
1 process. That's what you have, Len, for us here,
2 the time line and process?
3 MR. RUCKER: Yes. I'm sorry. And I
I_ cannot let me back up. I need to give you a
5 little background. Jim Blomley put these together.
i He is on vacation. I didn't know I was going to be
7 at the meeting tonight. So Jim and I
3 MS. ZIEGLER: Jim told us last week
you would be.
MR. RUCKER: I'm representing to you
L something that someone else did. Jim does very good
? work. I can't tell you everything on here how it
3 got on here. What you have is what Jim left behind
for us, and I'm passing it on to you.
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: We started out with
the process or concepts that we would issue a report
to the selectmen on September 15, which was what our
charter was, and that included with that would be
the RFP for their review.
MR. BARTLETT: Whose review?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Selectmen.
MR. RUCKER: That's not in the
agreement that you have. When I say agreement, per
this, this was the
MR. PACINO: Why don't you review
that.
MR. RUCKER: This particular
document?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah.
MR. RUCKER:
Bart and Bill were there at
when all this happened, but
start like this.
MR. BURDITT:
MR. RUCKER:
particular meeting that the
CPDC, the CAB, the RMLD, if
think there was somebody el
I have well, Phil,
the particular meeting
this came this didn't
That's right.
It was at that
selectmen, the RMLD,
I remember correctly, I
se involved, I can't
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remember who, after a fairly long meeting we came to
the conclusion that this would be the process of
covering the various activities that all the parties
would undergo. And so the way the process was
supposed to work is this task force would determine
the restrictions, and you were given sole authority
for that. And that we would take those, we being
the RMLD, would take those restrictions and put them
into an RFP using our formats. We would advertise
it in four papers, instead of really doing one we'd
do them in four. That's our normal process.
We would receive the proposals. We would
reject any that didn't meet the criteria just of the
building itself, and then we're out of the picture.
And this task force then considers all the ones that
are surviving and is responsible for making the
recommendation to both the selectmen and to the
commission.
MR. BURDITT: Mm-hmm.
MR. RUCKER: So right now the RFP is
not subject to review by the selectmen.
MS. ZIEGLER: Good.
MR. PACING: Okay. Now that you feel
is in Peter's policy?
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MR. RUCKER: Peter and I when he
wrote the policy, he sent it over to me.
MS. ZIEGLER: Recommend sales of
commission to be
MR. PACING: Yeah.
MR. RUCKER: Peter was involved with
the development of this.
MR. BURDITT: Yeah.
MR. RUCKER: And town counsel was and
general counsel was on the other side and everybody
was comfortable at the end of the policy. That was
sent to the selectmen. It was consistent and there
were no inconsistencies.
MS. ZIEGLER: That fits with this
policy?
MR. RUCKER: Yeah. They were
designed to compliment each other.
MS. ZIEGLER: We also need to get the
appraisal in this time frame.
MR. PACINO: Right.
MR. RUCKER: The appraisal was the
same thing. We would just take and send out a
request: for proposal for professional appraisal
services.
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MS. ZIEGLER: At the same time you do
the RFP because you want them to come back about the
same time.
MR. RUCKER: Well, not necessarily.
The appraisal could be done earlier. And the way we
look at it, tell the appraisal company do it you
have to have it done by "X" date, which would be
tied to the different property.
MS. ZIEGLER: The way values are
changing I think the closer you are
MR. RUCKER: We would tie them
together. That way if they did them a little bit
early, we would require them to seal the results
even from us, seal it, hold it, release it to no one
until you have received notification that the formal
bid open is opening up. Then they would release the
results so that you had the yardstick to measure the
difference.
MS. ZIEGLER: We could also say we
want the value as of a certain date.
MR. RUCKER: Sure. You could do
that.
MS. ZIEGLER: I would. Commercial
property is really weighing out.
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MR. RUCKER: The idea too would be to
tie it together. We would certainly I mean,
we've got an appraisal from three years ago that is
no good.
MS. ZIEGLER: Things have gone
(inaudible comment)
MR. RUCKER: They have a short life.
We would do that and put that on the string and tie
them all together.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: When did you I
see that you've got here issue the request for
proposals, October 14. Why would you advertise, you
know, three weeksearlier in the Central Register
before the RFP-went out?
MS. ZIEGLER: It takes two weeks to
get it in.
MR. RUCKER: I think that's exactly
the reason.
MS.
MR.
submitting adverti
MR.
takes two weeks to
and they wanted to
ZIEGLER: It has a time lag.
VAN MAGNESS: That's the date of
sing copy not the issuance.
PACING: Right. As Jim said, it
get it into the Central Register,
give them a four-week period.
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It's really a six-week period from the time the
decision is made to go forward at that point.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay.
MR. PACING: I think that's what
he as I remember Jim told me, we've got to work
backwards.
MS. ZIEGLER: You have to.
MR. PACINO: That's how I believe he
told it.
MS. ZIEGLER: Is two weeks enough
time between the site visit and for them to get
proposals in?
MR.-RUCKER: It should be, but
usually with any even large pieces of things we're
doing we find out most companies that have the
capability of doing it can turn it around certainly
in two weeks. We also find that the site visit
tends to be it starts separating out people who
are serious and not serious. The serious ones will
show up at the site visit, and you get a feel for
how big your roof is; and then you still lose
probably 50 percent of them.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: So the plan is that
the RFP won't be available who's going to review
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the RFP? I guess I would like to know who is going
to review the RFP, anybody?
MR. RUCKER: Ultimately I've got to
sign off on it.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: But there will be
no review here, no review by the RMLD, no review by
the selectmen?
MR. RUCKER: Currently no, but we
would not do anything let me explain to you our
terms and conditions, and such they're
standardized. So there aren't it is it's all
boiler plate. Our process is set up in two pieces.
We have what is called the terms and conditions
sheetor sheets I should say which have to be
customized somewhat depending on the situation.
In this case, for instance, customization
that would occur would be the things to do.with just
the sale of property. Things that don't have
anything to do with sale of•property probably would
be taken out. That would be pretty much it.
The other part of the bid process is what
we call the technical spec. The technical spec
would be something in this case it would describe
the property. It would have the restrictions that
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you put into it, that sort of thing. Technical spec
is usually fairly slim and trim.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess my take on
the process, and I guess I was casting down a road
of my own, was that, you know, we issue our report
on September 15 which would include recommendations
to include; but it would just seem to me it would
tie the whole process together if the draft RFP was
available for at least an information copy and RMLD
had that, so the process moves forward.
MR. RUCKER: There is a requirement
on here for an information copy to go to the CAB and
down. In fact there is
MR. PACINO: What Fred is saying on
that September 15
(Discussion off record)
MR. PACINO: Is it possible that the
RFP could be set by that date?
MR. BURDITT: At least a draft?
MR. RUCKER: Yes. I would just
ask I guess my this is an interesting question
for me to ask. It's always been my experience that
information copies of drafts there is no such
animal.
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Everybody when they look at the draft
immediately starts editing, just my experience.
I've never seen an information copy of a draft that
has ever remained unchallenged, unedited,
unchanged.
MR. BURDITT: Maybe that's not bad.
MR. RUCKER: I'm not saying it's
bad. I'm just saying I never what I guess I
really am saying what you do then is de facto, you
will create a review in change process. I'm almost
positive.
MR. BURDITT: I wouldn't say change
the process. I'm saying if it's a draft to get to
the final copy, I think this committee might be able
to give some input into what the majority would
interpret as a direction to where we should go with
the RFP.
MR. RUCKER: Actually, Bill, I
wouldn't disagree at all. I guess what I was trying
to make was that you have a series of bodies that
created a process. So it would seem if you want to
change the process
MR. BURDITT: I'm not looking to
change the process. All I'm saying if you have a
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draft and this is a committee that has an input into
the total process, that maybe it could have an input
after reviewing the draft RFP. Not that we want to
totally change the RFP or just make sure the RFP
contains what the majority of this committee feels
is the direction this committee has said the RFP
should go to.
MR. RUCKER: Well, you let me give
you some examples of areas in which I know there
will be there were differences between the town
and the RMLD. We generally have higher liability
insurance requirements. We generally don't use bid
bonds. We use performance bonds.
MR. BURDITT: Mm-hmm.
MR. RUCKER: Those are just two
fundamentally different approaches. Not that the
other one is right or wrong. It's just that's the
approach that I would have.
MR. BURDITT: I'm not
committee in reviewing a draft would
either of those. They might want to
the wording doesn't miss something 1
potential use or a you know, just
might slip through the cracks.
sure this
challenge
make sure that
ike a use or a
something that
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MR. RUCKER: We to answer the
original question, could we have it ready for that?
Certainly, if that's your desire, we could do it.
I'm just merely making the observation that that's
not what was in the flow chart. That's not what was
agreed to by all the bodies.
MR. BURDITT: I understand.
MR. RUCKER: That doesn't mean if you
ask us we won't do it.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'd like to just
throw a thought out here, which was I know we made
somewhat of a decision before, but I'm going to
refer to your
(Discussion off record)
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm going to refer
to your blue books, tab four, which is the Pearl
Street School proposal, page four, special
conditions, play field. You may want to take a
moment to read it. It presents a description of how
options were presented to a prospective bidder
relative to a ball field.
(Pause)
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I thought, you
know, when I read through all of the different bid
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packages we had for prior RFP's, this Pearl Street
one was more current I guess; and there was a lot of
information here in terms of bid conditions and
selection criteria that I thought might form a basis
for what we're doing over here in terms of trying to
set what we think are the items that need to go into
the RFP. Because it really starts out and talks
about acceptable uses, the deposit, the P&S
agreement, the zoning compliance.
MR. RUCKER: Those are exactly the
issues, Fred, that, you know, RMLD we just simply
do it different.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. I respect
you would.
MR. RUCKER: That's why I'm saying if
we were writing the Pearl Street School one using
this one, we would have written it
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Differently.
MR. RUCKER: differently.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. I don't
have any issue with that.
MR. RUCKER: I'm not saying it's
better. I'm saying it's different. We come from
a -
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MS. ZIEGLER: You come from a
business angle.
MR. RUCKER: Yes, I guess that would
be it.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: There are certain
things in this example, for example, that I think we
might lift right out of one of these and put in your
own language or whatever.
MR. BARTLETT: I wonder if they
could getting back to the meeting that Len refers
to, we're really getting beyond the scope of what
_ th_i_s week _was-int n-d~-d oar . __Xo _ know, u' re
getting into deposits and whatnot.
It's my recollection from that meeting
that the intent of this group was just as we have
set out, what is the best use, what should be the
restrictions to maximize the value of this, the
Reading Light and the Town of Reading to go along
with the mention there and I think the prime thing
that came out of that meeting is just as it
indicates here that with input from this committee
on those items, RMLD would go forward with the legal
requirements, obviously, working hand in hand with
the town manager. I think that while RMLD is free
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to go its own way, I think everybody agreed they
weren't going to do anything. That the town
themselves might find contrary to their best wishes
in their handling of it. I just wonder if part of
this is I have no problem with them coming back
here is what you guys recommend here is how we
propose to include it, and I certainly would like to
see the RFP certainly at some point to to see a
draft of the RFP after we, in fact, have approved
what is going into it. And Len and his team come
back and say here's how it's going to be in there,
the things we're recommending, shouldn't we be
satisfied at that point?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah, I wasn't
suggesting anything different than that. I was just
suggesting that it kind of is a nice package when
when you're making a report, you have the RFP and
where the process goes.
MR. BARTLETT: That could be I
guess that could be sometime later on though from
our point of we kind of hit a lag point. Once we
make our recommendation, as I recall this process,
we're kind of at a siesta until the proposals
actually come in. We're out of the picture, so to
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speak, with the initial concept at least.
MR.
VAN MAGNESS: Right.
I think
you're right. We
can go to
sleep.
MR.
PACING:
How about i
f we
just
take a hiatus and
not go to
sleep.
MR.
BARTLETT:
Even when
they
are in
we have no further
authority
other than
to
recommend. Gee, t
his looks
good, that
looks
good.
We don't think you
ought to
consider th
is, w
e might
not want to consid
er this.
We have no
real
say in
ultimately what is
accepted.
MR.
BURDITT:
Mm-hmm.
MR.
BARTLETT:
That's my
recollection.
MR. RUCKER: This is a flow chart,
that's exactly what it says.
MR. BARTLETT: I guess what I'm
saying I wouldn't want to do anything. Maybe I
speak from working from Reading Light regularly.
And even as an outsider it's been my experience when
a committee recommends to Reading Light and they
come back and tell you that's what they are going to
do, they do it.
MR. RUCKER: One of the things just
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if I may.
MR. PACING: Go ahead.
MR. RUCKER: We're always very
careful, the terms and conditions we have right now
they came out of a process of a manual that was put
together and reviewed by a couple of different
attorneys, both local and at Rudman & Rudman.
So it's a little hard to take I guess I'll
call foreign processes and drop them in. Because
it's kind of a it's a whole document and you've
got to be very careful when you pull out any one
section. You can have unintended effects or causes,
unintended conflicts, that's why we tend to tinker
with it very little.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: No, there's no
suggestion of tinkering or tampering at all.
MR. RUCKER: I perhaps used the wrong
word.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: The point of the
matter was to just see what it looked like. If they
don't want to do it, I could care less. It's a
suggestion.
MR. PACING: How do the members
feel?
DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC.
1 MR. BURDITT: I think what I suspect
2 I what Fred wanted to say was just to make sure
3 the RFP gives this committee what they think they
4 have said in the requirements that the direction
5 or whatever. You know, not to change things, not to
6 nitpick anything, but just to make sure the general
7 thought of what the majority of the committee thinks
8 is included in there.
9 MR. BROWN: It's kind of like reading
10 the Chronicle the morning after and wondering what
11 you said.
12 MR. VAN MAGNESS Yeah, was that the
13 same meeLing.
14 MS. ZIEGLER: Make sure you get
15 quoted right.
16 MR. BURDITT: I tape every
17 selectmen's meeting and I retape it the next meeting
18 after I have read the minutes and what has been in
19 the paper. Tape and tape and tape.
20 MR. PACINO: So I think what we're
21 saying we are not looking to change the world.
22 i MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right.
23 MR. PACINO: All we're looking to
24 make sure whatever restrictions we come up with are
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actually in the document; and I think if we restrict
ourselves to those areas whether we do review the
RFP and not go off and change other aspects that the
department has, I don't think any of us are
suggesting to change other aspects, I think that's
what we're saying.
MR. RUCKER: We're not uncomfortable
with that. I'm not trying to be too rigorous. I
was clearly told by half a dozen different boards
this is the way to put it in place.
MR. BURDITT: Yeah.
MR. RUCKER: I'm here pointing it
out If there is any inconsistencies with it, this
was not originally our idea. We had a different
proposal
MR. BURDITT: We're not trying to
change anything, I don't think. It's just a you
know, we can say anything that we think we didn't
say or we did say that isn't in here or
MR. RUCKER: It is at least the way
Jim and I I talked about it briefly. He was
trying to get it all set up. I told him to take our
standard terms and conditions and create a section
in the request for bid that's called special
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conditions; and frankly, whatever I was under the
assumption, which is perhaps proven to be incorrect,
that that section would be written by this task
force, we would not change it at all. We would
simply take whatever it is that you gave us and put
it into that section labeled special conditions, and
that's why we never really thought throughout the
rest of it. We just assumed it would be a piece
that you would hand us, and we would just simply put
it in.
MR. BURDITT: If that's the case,
there is no need, if that's what we're doing.
MR. RUCKER: We may have been wrong
on our assumption.
MS. ZIEGLER: We also need to have
our bid restriction, how we're going to judge it
too.
MR. RUCKER: We you can't put
that we generally in our bids
MS. ZIEGLER: You can't put that in?
MR. RUCKER: You can. You can put in
the waiting process and tell bidders, that's
perfectly legitimate.
MS. ZIEGLER: We don't want to take
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the highest bid or the lowest bid, whatever you had
to do.
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MR. RUCKER: The reason we don't in
our we haven't at least while I've been here and
the board's never given me any different direction,
and the prior boards and prior manager never did.
If you put that in and then you don't use it
religiously, you've created another avenue for a bid
to be rejected, challenged.
MS. ZIEGLER: What happens if we
don't put it in?
MR. RUCKER: You've got language in
there which is you reserve the right to
MR. BURDITT: Reject.
MR. RUCKER: to reject any and all
bids or any parts of it or to accept any combination
that you feel is in the best interest of
MS. ZIEGLER: Ratepayers and
taxpayers.
MR. RUCKER: So what that does is
gives you absolutely ultimate flexibility. You can
do this process. It's just been our experience then
somebody will come back and say you rejected my bid
improperly because on this category you measured me
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wrong or measured the other people
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'm okay with that
as a term and condition the way you stated it.
That's fine. You'll come back this way whether we
have to make some
MR. RUCKER: You can create whatever
criteria you want.
MS. ZIEGLER: We can change it
midstream too.
MR. RUCKER: That's up to you. You
have the full right and authority.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'll call your
attention again to that same -Pearl- Street- package on
page five the outline on page five and six,
selection criteria, which include a lot of the
things that are up there. It doesn't have to go in
the RFP. I wouldn't suggest that it does.
MR. RUCKER: Actually, my suggestion
to you would be to
MS. ZIEGLER: Refer to we have
criteria.
MR. RUCKER: To use it.
MS. ZIEGLER: Reference, we have it.
MR. RUCKER: It's up to you if you
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1 1 wanted us to.
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VAN MAGNESS: I wouldn't.
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BARTLETT:
I would be reluctant.
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VAN MAGNE
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suggest you -
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ZIEGLER:
Don't you have to say
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that we'r
e going to judge?
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No. You say the
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would be
actually, in this
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be th
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authority with the
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commi
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with the recommendation
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ZIEGLER:
The review committee.
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the review committee
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based
MS. ZIEGLER: So we don't have to say
r we have certain criteria we're looking for?
3 MR. RUCKER: No.
)i MR. BARTLETT: If you did, that
criteria would have to be in there.
MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. We do have
criteria.
MR. BARTLETT: Well, you're judging
criteria which is different than your
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MR. BURDITT: And you may judge
something different than I do, Mollie.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: And
MR. BURDITT: It's nothing to put on
paper.
MS. ZIEGLER: If we don't have to put
it in there, that's fine.
MR. BARTLETT: I guess the other half
of the question is if you can change it, you can
change it up to the last minute so long as you apply
the criteria to
MR. PACING: The quality of use is a
1 different idea.
MS. ZIEGLER: Yours is different from
mine.
MR. PACINO: That's right. Some of
us have different opinions as to what quality of use
is.
MS. ZIEGLER: You have things there
that I don't want there.
MR. BARTLETT: The conditions would
have to be very specific. You would have to meet
those, but how you judge that
MS. ZIEGLER: That's good to know.
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MR. BARTLETT: What Len refers to is
much more generic.
MS. ZIEGLER: That's what we need.
MR. RUCKER: It gives the selectmen
and commissioners much more flexibility. We find in
our bids and suspect it's probably through the
selectmen. Also no matter how we have been
buying transformers for 100 years, we know the
business inside and out; and every once in a while
you still get into a situation you never possibly
anticipated beforehand, and the board at least
our board considers it on a case-by-case basis and
the final criteria has usually been is it in the
best interest of the ratepayers. In our case I'm
sure the taxpayers in the town's case and it's their
subjective judgment, sometimes it's explained and
i sometimes it's not.
MR. BURDITT: Pearl Street we had two
bids, accepted one and rejected the other. One
the other one may have been all the conditions we
didn't think met, what we wanted was different.
Yeah, it gets interesting.
MR. BARTLETT: Because in a case like
this you're in a judgmental situation. If they meet
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your conditions, your specific conditions, that's a
judgmental situation. It's not like a I want a
Ford F600 with such and such a transmission, etc.
It's more judgemental.
MR. PACING: Okay.
MR. BROWN: Fine. Go ahead.
Restrictions.
MR. PACINO: The only thing that I
would like to see is in the timetable if it could be
worked in on the schedule of the appraisal. That
doesn't seem to be in the timetable. I don't really
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see that.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: What did you want
in there?
MS. ZIEGLER: The appraisal.
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MR. PACINO: Just the appraisal, I
don't see any reference to the appraisal.
MR. BURDITT: You should receive the
appraisal November 15. When you want to go out for
it, that's fine.
MR. PACINO: The process we're going
to go out on the appraisal, we won't go through the
Central Register on the appraisal. Do you want to
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detail what process you were planning to use?
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MR. RUCKER: That's simply a letter
for proposal.
MS. ZIEGLER: To certain people.
MR. RUCKER: We go to my guess is
it's a half dozen. We'll send it to people who are
licensed professional appraisers.
MS. ZIEGLER: How long does that take
to get back and make your selection and then for a
bid?
MR. RUCKER: It's
MS. ZIEGLER: Would it take them six
weeks to do one?
MR. RUCKER: To do the appraisal?
MS. ZIEGLER: Mm-hmm.
MR. RUCKER: It depends. If I
remember correctly, there is only about two weeks of
effort. It's typically stretched over six weeks,
but that depends on other appraisal work that
they're doing.
MR. BURDITT: What's the cost of an
appraisal? What would you guess the cost of an
appraisal would be?
MR. RUCKER: Depends on how you go,
but I would expect $10,000.
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MR. BURDITT: Is that expensive? I
was going to say instead of going with one appraiser
because they are the cheapest bidder
MR. RUCKER: What you get when you
say an appraisal when we say licensed, they are all
through the same criteria and most of it is,
frankly, governed by Federal Rules because lending
institutions require certain criteria to be met. So
what you'll get no matter who you go to as long as
you're using one of them and most people qualify to
that otherwise, they don't do business and they
are out of business.
So they will bring back to you and
appraisal that is based on comparative sale of
similar properties and they'll have in there similar
properties maybe in other towns as an example, and
they'll come back and show you actual sales that
occurred someplace else and say based on this method
the appraised value would be X, Y, Z.
Then they will also do another comparison
that is essentially what I think of is a cost to
duplicate type of analysis using we use what is
called RS Means Construction Standards. That's what
they use usually, and they'll go through and say
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based on all of this zoning and where we know it all
these records we have and they put all the
information down, we say that you'll by that
method it's A, B, C. Then they will take and
usually average or weigh in other words, they may
say there was so few similar properties that that
method is riot valid and we'll go on the comparative
cost basis or vice versa or they simply average it.
MS. ZIEGLER: Will they do a
capitalization using rents of similar properties?
MR. RUCKER: I'm yes, I have seen
that.
MR. BURDITT: But if
MR. RUCKER: That's generally in
there. That is usually a subset. No matter who you
went to, you're pretty much going to get the same.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: It's a boiler
plate.
MR. RUCKER: It's a boiler plate.
MR. BURDITT: You think you would get
pretty much the same.
MS. ZIEGLER: It would be the same
way of doing things, but the value might not be.
MR. BURDITT: That's what I'm
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saying. It mig
ht
have that was the point I was
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getting at.
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MR.
BARTLETT:
Depends who they are
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doing it for.
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ZIEGLER:
Depends what properties
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they are using
it
for.
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VAN MAGNE
SS: Are we going to
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finish this tim
e l
ine?
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MR.
BURDITT:
I think that's part of
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the time line.
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MS.
ZIEGLER:
If we want to receive
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it November 15,
we
have to a
ward it the 1st of
1.3
October?
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MR.
BARTLETT:
Should be the
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beginning right
ab
out now.
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RUCKER:
As soon as this meeting
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is as soon a
s J
im is in.
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MS.
ZIEGLER:
October 1 is when you
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should award th
e a
ppraisal,
right.
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PACING:
Let's try to work on the
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time line, then
we
will go o
n to the appraisals.
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MR.
BURDITT :
Okay. You're right, to
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go out to find
out
who we ar
e going to go out to
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find, who we ar
e going to us
e as an appraiser and
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they could follow the same thing as all the bidders
on November 1, go to the site visit.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: So you want to
insert between issue request for proposals a line
that says award appraisal and put down a date of
October 1, 1994?
MR.
RUCKER:
That's
fine.
MR.
BARTLETT:
Would
you say six
weeks?
MR. RUCKER: Well, you waist it I
did say that; but when do you want it? You want it
when you have received the bids?
MS. ZIEGLER: Okay. That's November
15.
MR. RUCKER: Right. So as long as
you any time before that it's just because you
don't need to have it then.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: So should we put it
on the same line that says receive proposals and
appraisal and just keep it on that same line? If it
happens earlier, fine.
MR. RUCKER: If it happens earlier,
it is just going to be sealed.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Under lock and key.
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MR. RUCKER: Yeah.
MR. PACING: We're not adding in the
word appraisal. That's not being added in.
MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah, we have to
MR. VAN MAGNESS: In between
advertise in Central Register and issue request for
proposals and insert a line that says award
appraisal October 1, 1994.
MR. BARTLETT: Which gives you your
six weeks to get it done.
MR. BURDITT: You need a request.
MS. ZIEGLER: We're backing into it.
This is how we do the taxes too.
MR. BARTLETT: We're working like a
town committee now.
MR. BURDITT: Yeah, that's scary.
MS. ZIEGLER: So how long do they
need to give you a bid before after they receive
your letter?
MR. RUCKER: Typically two weeks.
MS. ZIEGLER: So September 1 we
should you should mail out sometime around
September 1 you should mail out the RFP for
appraisal?.
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MR. RUCKER: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's
about right.
MS. ZIEGLER: Okay.
MR. RUCKER: So you want to put
September.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Issue request for
appraisal September 1, 1995.
MR. RUCKER: May I suggest
something?
MS. ZIEGLER: Appraisal letter.
MR. RUCKER: You have gone in a very
logical process but have come to an illogical
-conclusion. I'm assuming you want to do report
to the selectmen would be your report and in that
you will have finalized your special conditions.
MS. ZIEGLER: If they change any of
them, we can't have the appraisal.
MR. RUCKER: I would suggest that
perhaps if you just simply one of two things,
either report to selectmen, we can start the
request the appraisal then or since actually in the
thing you need to control here is the receipt of the
appraisal results. You have already got that
controlled and you can leave when it starts up to
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September 1 because
MS. ZIEGLER: That's true.
MR. RUCKER: September 15 is the
minimum.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: September 16 is a
Friday so
MR. RUCKER: Okay.
MR. BURDITT: Make it the 21st.
MR. BARTLETT: 20th, 21st.
MR. BURDITT: 16th wouldn't be a
Friday. 16th would be a Wednesday.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why is that?
MR. BURDITT: Because the selectmen's
meetings are on Tuesdays.
I MS. ZIEGLER: The 15th is on a
Tuesday.
MR. BURDITT: The 16th would be on a
Wednesday.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't believe so.
MR. PACINO: We have a calendar.
MS. ZIEGLER: No. The 13th is a
Tuesday.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'll take a bet,
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September 12 is a Monday. Do you want to bet?
(Discussion off record)
MR. PACINO: What is the 15th? The
15th is what day?
MR. RUCKER: The 15th is a Thursday.
MR. BARTLETT: And you meet on what
night?
MR. BURDITT: Tuesday.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's all right.
MS. ZIEGLER: I can't meet on the
13th..
MR. BARTLETT: But, you know, the
j point wouldn't they wouldn't they have their
meeting on the 13th, so they can determine if they
i
want a special meeting.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: They asked for a
special meeting on the 15th.
MR. BURDITT: Be prepared on the
13th.
MR. PACING: Why don't you do that.
Take that back to Peter. Why don't you take that
back to Peter and see if we can set that for the
meeting of the 13th.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's change the
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calender to make it
the 13th.
2
MR.
PACING: Right. Bill with take
3
the message back to
Peter.
4
MR.
RUCKER: You changed something,
5
what?
6
MS.
ZIEGLER: The first date.
7
MR.
RUCKER: September 13?
8
MR.
PACING: Right.
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MR.
VAN MAGNESS: Issue RFK for
10
appraisal, that's t
he Friday.
11
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PACING: I don't know what the
1-2
commission schedule
is for that. Are we on track on
13
the commission now?
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MR.
RUCKER: Meeting on the 12th?
15
MR.
PACING: We're meeting on the
16
12th.
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MR.
RUCKER: When did you want to
18
meet?
19
(Discussi
on off record)
20
MR.
PACINO: Why don't we schedule
21
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for the 13th. Then
we'll move our meeting. We'll
22
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(
have to meet thi
s is a joint meeting as I
23
remember with the s
electmen, the commission and
24
the
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MR. RUCKER: When is this?
MS. ZIEGLER: The 13th.
MR. PACING: 13th when the task force
has to report back as a joint meeting.
MR. RUCKER: They only report back to
the selectmen.
MR. PACINO: No. The task force will
report to the board of selectmen and the RMLD board
jointly.
I MR. RUCKER: Under the policy?
MR. PACING: Right. There is a joint
meeting actually that you should add in there.
C MS. ZIEGLER: It's an order that any
town meeting be included. We really don't have
any.
MR. BURDITT: We don't know yet.
MR. BARTLETT: We don't they may
want to meet with us once they get the report.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I say we go and
present it.
MR. PACINO: I think we should
present the presentation and any discussion. Who
knows, maybe some citizen may show up.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Can I make a
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recommendation on dates?
MR. PACINO: Yes, please.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Consistent with
what we talked about the report to the selectmen
line should have a slash RMLD and change the date to
September 1.3.
MR. RUCKER: I'm getting precision
now. That's what I was looking for.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Insert a new line,
i
issue RFQ for appraisal September 16. That's the
Friday. That's four days after the meeting and you
can do it the next night or any day in between.
I
Receive proposalsfor appraisals September 30. I
i
believe that's two weeks hence on a Friday.
MR. RUCKER: You had originally award
j appraisal on October 1.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I changed; that
because it's a Friday. I changed it to October 3.
MR. RUCKER: What happened on that
date?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Receive proposal
for appraisal. In other words, that's a two-week
period.
MR. RUCKER: Okay.
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: Then I I'm not
sure, you would have to check your calendar, award
appraisal the next Monday, which is October 2 or 3.
I don't how many days are there in September?
MS. ZIEGLER: 30.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Great. It worked
out wonderfully. October 3 should be a Monday.
October 3, award appraisal. Then you got issue RFP
October 4. Everything continues right along in line
then.
MR. PACINO: Then except for receive
proposals you put and appraisal at the same time.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: And appraisal.
MR. RUCKER: It's a due is it
doable? Yes.
MS. ZIEGLER: Does 30 days give you
enough time to come over?
MR. PACINO: Is it doable?
MR. RUCKER: It should be.
(Discussion off record)
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I would like to
make a suggestion also just for discussion that we
insert in here in December and January, sometime in
January, maybe like the second week in January or
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maybe the third week in January that we put in here
potential interviews of prospective bidders, you
know, as part of our evaluation process.
MS. ZIEGLER: A prospective fine
list.
MR. PACINO: Why would we want to do
that, to interview before the final?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Before we make a
final recommendation and select, it may be something
we will want to do maybe. I don't know. I don't
want to just lose the thought. That's why I said
potential.
MS. ZIEGLER: Did you interview
people when you sold Pearl Street? We did for the
first Bear Hill.
MR. BURDITT: Well, not with the
purchase and sale agreement.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I would think you
might want to bring them in and say what do you want
to do here, let's see some
MR. BURDITT: The P&S as I recall
MS. ZIEGLER: That's a good idea. We
did when we did architects to design the town hall.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sure.
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MS. ZIEGLER: We interviewed them.
MR. BURDITT: We had to negotiate for
the P&S. We had to negotiate but not before we
select, I don't think.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I mean, I think we
ought to give them an opportunity to come in.
MS. ZIEGLER: If we have 50 people
that have practically the same thing, we might want
to talk to them.
MR. BARTLETT: We have it on
professional contracts but not on a true bid.
MR. RUCKER: On the RMLD that's the
-same thing on proposals The boards like the
auditors, you interview them and all that when it
comes to a pure bid it's never
MR. VAN MAGNESS: This is not a
this is a different thing.
MR. BURDITT: That's right.
MS. ZIEGLER: We did it with pure
bid.
MR. BURDITT: It's not a pure bid.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: You bet we did with
Bear Hill.
MS. ZIEGLER: The first time we did
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it.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: And I think it was
a valuable process.
MS. ZIEGLER: We might not need it.
We may only get one final.
MR. RUCKER: I'm not arguing. I'm
just saying historically.
MR. BURDITT: Why don't we put it
down.
MS. ZIEGLER: Interview fine list.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Just put down
possible.
MS. ZIEGLER: Put down interview fine
list.
MR. BURDITT: Like the 15th of
January?
MR. BARTLETT: It really could be any
time in between there.
MR. BURDITT: The initial evaluation
is the 15th of December and the final selection is
the 31st of January.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why don't we just
put down 1994-95 and don't put a date.
MR. PACING: The other things in
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terms of that, I'll bring it up now at this point,
at one point too I would like to see some sort of
recommendation from the daytime people. I mean, Len
and his people, you know, are going to be working
with this on a regular basis. I would like to see
as a part of that process maybe we add some sort of
recommendation from the Department that comes into
us as to what they recommend this committee accept.
Let them evaluate what they have got the
expertise, the engineers here.
MS. ZIEGLER: Wouldn't they be
helping him?
MR. PACING: What?
MR. RUCKER: In the normal case
let me explain what we would do normally. We kind
of do a two-step internal process. The first review
is to reject.
MS. ZIEGLER: That doesn't mean
things
MR. RUCKER: We go through it's
just a pure tabletop analysis. Somebody says the
spec says and the proposal says and if the answer is
no, they make marks as nonconforming. It's not
rejected yet, but once you get all the
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nonconforming, you look and say is there enough
conforming that would cause it to be rejected. It
depends, sometimes the nonconforming you forgot to
sign the form. You call them up and they will send
somebody down to sign the form. They sign the form,
no big thing. Other times they didn't submit a bond
check. That's a big omission. You're out. You
don't get a second chance.
The second step we then do once we have
rejected whoever is rejected, we then do the
analysis to rank all the remaining successful
proposals against some sort of criteria. We then,
at -least in our process, take both parts tip to the
board. The board sees it, and we say it didn't meet
and here's why and here are the ones that did meet
and a ranking. And we give them all of that.
And then our recommendation in those cases
all are very straightforward taken by the analysis.
You can see exactly how you got to it and sometimes
the board disagreed and said no way, we should have
rejected this. Usually they go with our
recommendation. Usually our recommendation is based
purely on the analysis and we have all the
documentation behind it.
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MR. RUCKER: Some of the things we
have done, like for instance, the auditor's report
to the board directly. And we make a we don't
make a recommendation. We just do a ranking is all
it does. We do the tabletop analysis, give it all
to the board and, frankly, the board decides on
their own processes. So we don't fully do a
recommendation just simply a ranking.
MR. PACING: Business decision
does they audit the subcommittee does ask the
business manager for his recommendations to how he
feels this would be because there are times he in
terms of audits at times he works with the
auditors. If there is any particular problem, he
would bring it up to us from his standpoint.
In a case like this the department comes
in with some sort of recommendation or rank even
maybe to come up with the ranking as to how they
feel what the best proposals are, one through
whatever. If you get 20 million, maybe one through
20 million.
MR. RUCKER: If I can just express my
own opinion from the Department.
MR. PACINO: Yeah.
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MR. RUCKER: I would just suggest a
ranking.
MR. PACINO: Right.
MR. RUCKER: I'll tell you why and I
haven't checked with the attorneys yet, but I get
this gut feeling that says wait a minute, they're
coming back to the RMLD to pay bonds. I'm not sure
if we should I don't know legally, but certainly
ethically be involved in the actual recommendation
doing a pure ranking, just simply an objective,
here's the criteria, here's the ranking, here's the
information. The board can do with it what it
wants, I think is one step on more commonly on
this side of the line.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Do we want to put
that in there?
MR. PACING: Yes.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: When do you want to
put it in?
MR. PACINO: I think we should put it
in there.
MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think it's
needed.
MR. BURDITT: What, the interview?
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MS. ZIEGLER: No. The ranking.
MR. BARTLETT: You may want to check
with counsel on that. I would feel a little
uncomfortable if you didn't come in with something
because you as we as the selectmen are charged
with representing the best interests of our RMLD
within this criteria, I don't have a problem. I
don't see a conflict with you coming in and saying,
hey, in our opinion this is number one, this is only
number two because.
MR. RUCKER: Well, the ranking the
difference between a rank and a recommendation is
pretty small. The ranking is nothing more than we
would go through on several different criteria and
just say bidders X, Y, Z ranked out this way based
on their criteria.
MR. BURDITT: This isn't
MR. RUCKER: Recommendation is
it's actually just one more sentence that goes after
it, based on the analysis we presented to you, we
recommend you accept the bids leaving out that last
sentence.
MR. BURDITT: This
isn
't cast
in
stone once we do some evaluation
and
looking
at that
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~ r.
time we may only have one bidder.
MS. ZIEGLER: One person comes above
the appraisal.
MR. BARTLETT: It may not even meet
the appraisal but it looks good.
MR. RUCKER: Even if we did a
recommendation, it carries no force even with the
commission. If the commission is free to ignore our
recommendation and whatever they like.
MR. PACINO: We're putting in the
possible interview.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Put it down.
MR. PACINO-: Write January 1, 1995 on
that so we have it. You close the bids on the 15th
and then you can have it by the 1st. That gives you
a deadline on that. I'm sorry, six weeks?
MS. ZIEGLER: Six weeks.
MR. BURDITT: You get another
Christmas off instead of this Christmas.
MR. PACINO: Hold on. Hold on. Now,
do we want to give the town that same option of
ranking?
MR. BURDITT: I'll take a different
perspective.
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MR. PACING: Should we give Peter the
same opportunity to do a ranking?
MS. ZIEGLER: That's why I don't
think it's up to us to do it and not anybody else.
MR. BURDITT: I know.
MS. ZIEGLER: You're going to get too
many people's hands in the pie.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's take the bids
and see if we think we need to do more ranking.
Let's call on staff for help. That's what our
charge was.
MR. PACINO: Why don't we leave it in
as a possible ranking then. I mean, we're at
this point I think we are going to need if we get
something .involved, we're going to need some ranking
or some professional help here.
MR. BURDITT: I think we can wait
until after the 15th of December to figure out what
we need, whether we need interviews or what we need
MR. RUCKER: I lost track of the
conversation. Are you still asking us on January 1
to provide a ranking?
MS. ZIEGLER: We're not going to make
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our decision until December 15.
MR. PACING: We're now down to a
possible ranking.
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j MR. RUCKER: Do you want to leave it
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on as a possible ranking? I need to know.
MR. PACING: I just want the
Department to know what is going to be required of
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them at this point. I hate to I don't know what
Jim's schedule looks like. If he is planning on
taking vacation the last two weeks of the year, we
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j could be in trouble there.
MR. BARTLETT: I assume on this
December 15-,- and as you say Jim made this up, but
I
when he says initial evaluation and preliminary cut,
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j he's the cut is those that just don't meet the
criteria?
MS. ZIEGLER: No. It's our cut.
MR. RUCKER: I don't think that is
the way it was meant, that your our cut before we
turn it over.
MR. PACING: The way it was discussed
the Department comes in
MR. VAN MAGNESS: The book on the
right.
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MS. ZIEGLER: We don't see anything
until December 15.
MR. PACING: If I were to come in and
those that don't qualify for whatever reason don't
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meet the specification, they get eliminated at that
point. That's what the initial evaluation and
preliminary cuts mean.
MR. RUCKER: And what goes back to
the task force are those who meet, everybody who
meets. After that it's up to you to choose.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: So we have from
December 15 allegedly until January sometime?
I
MR-. RUCKER: January 31, currently
you do the actual selection.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Not necessarily.
MR. RUCKER: No. You do the
recommendation.
MR. PACING: We do the
recommendation.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. The final
selection process. I think there is another process
here.
MR. PACING: We ought to change that
to final recommendation.
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MR. BARTLETT: I don't know if he
means that as final selection because if you're
going to have a sales and purchase drafted by
February 28
MR. PACING: That's right. I just
realized that.
MR. RUCKER: Could I make an offer to
the task force?
MR. PACINO: Yeah.
MR. RUCKER: It's since we've only
gotten through the six stages or something like
that, it looks like there is a lot of changes.
Perhaps we should go back andredraft _ it. Take
another cut and bring it back to you with some of
these more obvious points and with some because
I'm starting to see conflicts and we need to
describe it in a tighter form and make it for this
flow chart.
MR. PACINO: I see what Bart is
saying. He actually means the final when you go to
the next one.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's why there
was a conflict. We're missing a date here.
MR. RUCKER: If it's all right, we'll
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go back and revise
MR.
onto the different
can see that it co
MR.
MR.
this.
VAN MAGNESS: I'd like to get it
looks here with the dates so we
nforms and picks up everything.
RUCKER: Sure.
VAN MAGNESS: We can do that
ourselves or whatever.
MR. BARTLETT: It's nice to see what
we changed in the early part unless it conflicts
with down below.
MR. RUCKER: Yes. We'll go through
and get the words more precise here so there is no
doubt. Another list that has responsible party so
that way it's clearer who's doing it on that day.
I'll add to this list.
MR. PACINO: I think initial
evaluation and preliminary cut we're set on, but
what comes in after that?
MR. RUCKER: We'll add the dates to
the flow chart. That way you will be able to double
check both of them and make sure they are absolutely
consistent.
MR. PACINO: Okay. Are we all set?
Now we've still got two things. One is the
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appraisal to discuss
anything more?
Do we need to discuss
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Review the final.
Jim was going to have a final copy. We gave a lot
of things to look at last week. Do we have that?
MR. RUCKER: He gave me a draft. I
have held it because I've just taken the approach
that says, you know, it's we do the same thing we
did before we put it together. We send it out, it
was pretty straightforward stuff.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Did he give you the
draft after we had reviewed it?
MR. RUCKER: I don't know.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Because he did give
us a draft last week.
MR. RUCKER: He gave me a draft. I
don't know who reviewed it and who didn't.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: He gave us a copy
last week.
MR. RUCKER: One of the other reasons
for holding it is that he also gave me a draft
request for_ sealed bid. He modeled it on the Pearl
Street School. And when I looked at it, I said no,
wait a minute. First of all, it's inconsistent with
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our conditions, but more importantly there is
revisions in there that didn't seem to be terribly
appropriate. That's an example.
He had provisions for bid bonds. Bid
bonds in our experience tend to exclude people from
bidding. Nobody wants to tie up $50,000. So that
account process can decide and ultimately get
rejected, people would not even bother. On the
other hand, performance bond is appropriate. So
that's just a difference in philosophy. The Pearl
Street went bid bond. We say performance bonds.
-MR. VAN MAGNESS: The thing we're
talking about is the request for the appraisal.
MR. RUCKER: What I'm saying that
drove not drove, that had some impact on it. Jim
did the right thing in that he included a draft for
the RFP for the appraisal that was consistent with
the request for sealed bid. I had a fundamental
problem inconsistent with our conditions and you put
some things in here that the Pearl Street project
which was a renovation property is not at all the
same as somebody simply buying a property and doing
with it what they want consistent with zoning and
whatever restrictions you would put in.
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MR. PACING:
is what we're referring to.
16. You're saying there ar
sealed bid process?
MR. RUCKER:
MR. PACINO:
scope here.
82
Jim had this document
He's dated it August
e things in here on
No. I'm sorry.
He basically set the
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Mm-hmm.
MR. PACINO: And we reviewed the
scope.
MR. RUCKER: Let me explain at least
my logic. I rece.ived_ two these aren't the
things, just to represent them. I received two
documents. One was a draft request for sealed
bids. One was a draft request for appraisal
services. I found the request for sealed bid to be
incorrect. One, with our conditions; two, it was
based on a model that wasn't appropriate, just the
sale of property, not renovation property, a whole
series of conditions in the Pearl Street. As an
example you would require the successful bidders to
submit financial statements so that you could see
their ability to qualify.
MS. ZIEGLER: Wait a minute.
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MR. RUCKER: That's in the sale of
property.
MS. ZIEGLER.: Both of those pieces of
papers you had one had to do with the bid on the
i
property and the other had to do with the appraisal.
MR. RUCKER: I understand. Perhaps
my process was faulty. What I'm saying what I do in
my staff when they come in with a series of
documents related to one issue, if I find one of the
documents to be wrong, I take the whole package and
I go do it again. I don't want to look through here
to make sure that you might have made a mistake, you
might not have. Take --the- whole package and start
again. You've got a fundamental fatal flaw. As a
matter of fact, I tell them don't edit it. Throw it
away and start from scratch. One is wrong, one is
absolutely totally wrong I said. So I'm not going
to look at the other one.
I didn't realize because I wasn't at the
task force meetings that there might have been a
draft you had revised with input. I just simply
gave him direction to hold it, start it again. This
is wrong.
MS. ZIEGLER: Well, if I understood
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84
him the architect the appraisal thing had some
boiler plate that wanted to go with it and we wanted
to see that too.
MR. RUCKER: All we did was pull the
Meridith and McGrough.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's get back to
where we are. We don't have it. When are we going
to see it and/or_ are we going to see it I guess?
MR. RUCKER: If you tell me, you will
see it. Whenever you request to see it, I made the
mistake. If I go by the flow chart, you will not
see it. -
MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. I just want to
know
MR. BURDITT: But there were things
we were deviating from the flow chart. When we find
something we would like to see I guess
MR. VAN MAGNESS: The reason we
wanted to see it is we wanted to look at
specifically how the appraisal was going to be done
in terms of the different cuts that were going to be
made from the appraisal.
MR. RUCKER: I'm not disagreeing.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: All we wanted to do
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is get it done so we can say done. You guys do with
it what you want.
MR. RUCKER: I didn't realize, I have
to apologize, that there was a draft out there you
had reviewed and asked for it. All I know I now
understand Jim's face when he came in. He brought
this in and I said give me 15 minutes to read
these. I read the request for sealed bid, and I
said it's wrong, it's fatally flawed, stop.
MS. ZIEGLER: What's the sealed bid
got to do with this?
MR. RUCKER: It's my management
habits. All the process is all the production
MR. PACING: It was the RFP we were
looking for, a draft RFP review too, as part of the
process here. That's what Len saw and said no.
MR. RUCKER: I put a hold on the
whole thing. You got a fundamental flaw here, start
again, it's wrong. I don't even I'm not going to
spend my time to go through to find if there is any
inconsistencies. Do it right from scratch. Again,
I interceded, not frankly realizing, first of all,
it was due at this meeting or, secondly, you may
have reviewed it.
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MS. ZIEGLER: We had some corrections
and some additions we wanted to put on this. We had
questions and we wanted to make sure things got out
right.
MR. RUCKER: Would you according
to the flow chart I wouldn't provide it to you.
MS. ZIEGLER: Okay.
MR. RUCKER: If you want it, tell me
when you want it and we'll make sure and get it to
you.
MR. BARTLETT: It's supposed to go
out according to this September 16. So you're
talking about probably, what, around September 1st?
MR. PACING: I think
MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's a couple
weeks.
MR. PACINO: I think the problem we
had we had quite a few changes on the document, and
I think we had some questions that Jim was
researching; number of parking spaces that are
presently in the facility, we had 28 or 24. I think
that's why we wanted to see the final document to
see if those had been answered.
MR. RUCKER: Part of the problem
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87
it's not a problem. The draft can't be finalized
even if the task force is happy with it until we
also get all of the whatever the restrictions
there are because that will change.
MS. ZIEGLER: Our special conditions,
yeah.
MR. RUCKER: But I would also argue
once the special conditions are nailed down, the
writing of the RFP for the appraisal should only
take a day, two days tops. I mean, it's not a hard
document to come up with. And I tried to make them
as slim and trim as possible. They are usually less
than they are usually a page, page and a half.
MR. BARTLETT: So a draft subject to
changing conditions could easily be available
September 1st?
MR. RUCKER: If you like. It's
inconsistent with the flow chart.
MR. BARTLETT: I agree.
MR. BURDITT: That's good.
MR. PACINO: Fine. Right.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: What?
MS. ZIEGLER: 31st.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is Jim still going
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discussion item as to actually seeing a report on
that. The next item would be to discuss the special
conditions that are here.
MR. BROWN: If any.
i
MR. PACINO: What?
MR. BROWN: If any.
t
i
MR. PACINO: If any.
I
MS. ZIEGLER: Where is our chart?
I
That paper we had. We had a chart that had
restrictions that Jim had.
MR. RUCKER: I'll go look in his
office.
MS ZIEGLER: They're rolled up.
MR. RUCKER: It was one of those.
MR. PACING: Yes, it was one of
those. It had been detached. It's one that Jim
has the chart.
MR. BROWN: Proposed restrictions.
MR. PACINO: Proposed restrictions.
MS. ZIEGLER: Special conditions is
this sheet.
MR. BARTLETT: Just as a question and
I don't recall you have it in here and I remember it
being discussed, no service station and etc., which
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I assume is the zoning law is allowed, automotive
sale or repair. So you wouldn't object to a used
car lot?
MS. ZIEGLER: Forget it.
MR. BARTLETT: The only reason I
raise it, you're saying you don't want a service
station and we don't allow any more in our town
except the ones that we've got that are
grandfathered.
MS. ZIEGLER:
the used car lots?
MR. BARTLETT:
What do we have along
Maybe it's not allowed
on your zoning.
MS. ZIEGLER:
MR. BURDITT:
as best acceptables.
MR. BARTLETT:
MS. ZIEGLER:
don't we? We did when I was
MR. BARTLETT:
you already have limited
MR. BURDITT:
Section four.
We would consider that
I'm sure.
We limit the number,
on the board.
I'm wondering where
We don't limit pizza
parlors.
MS. ZIEGLER: Sale of new or used is
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1
not all
owed. We don't want any
automotive.
2
MR. BARTLETT: I
only threw it out as
3
a
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MR. RUCKER: I'm
sorry, I don't see
5
it.
6 ii
MR. BARTLETT: I
only threw it out.
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7
If you
want to expand that item
there
8
MR. VAN MAGNESS:
Where are all our
9
charts?
We don't know where the
y are?
10
MR. PACING: Jim
has got them. Can
11
I
we take
a break.
12
(Recess taken)
13
MR. BARTLETT: Di
d you find what
14
you're
looking for?
15
MR. PACINO: Yes,
we did. It's right
16
there.
That's the restrictions
we had talked about,
17
the spe
cial conditions. That's
the ones we have
18 i
talked
about.
19
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MR. RUCKER: Have
you agreed to
20
those?
Should they be in here?
21
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MR. VAN MAGNESS:
Len, I hate to ask
22
these d
ifficult questions.
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MS. ZIEGLER: We
didn't disagree.
24 `
MR. BARTLETT: I
wasn't there either.
't
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let me put it this
way, it was task approval.
MR. PACINO: Yes.
MR. BROWN: The only one I have a
problem with is the driveway from Haven Street.
Depending on the type of business you might want
them to come in one way and go out the other.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I hate to put more
traffic congestion on Haven Street and lose two
parking spaces.
MS. ZIEGLER: Two parking spaces?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: For a driveway.
MR. BROWN: We can pick up two
further up on Haven Street. They have already been
yellowed out because the post office changed their
direction of travel.
MS. ZIEGLER: In front of the Masonic
Temple?
MR. BROWN: Yeah.
MR. BARTLETT: I don't know if there
is any access.
MR. BROWN: Yeah, there is.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: There is a curb
cut.
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1 i MR. RUCKER: There is a curb cut,
2 it's gated.
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MS.
ZIEGLER: There is a fence there.
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MR.
RUCKER: Looks like a fence but
5
it's a gate. As a
matter of fact, for the food
6
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court we took the
gate off. Remember the food court
7
for the 350th?
8
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MR.
BURDITT: Yeah. Yeah.
9
MR.
BROWN: Coming up Haven Street
10
making a right, tu
rn going out Green Street, you're
11
not coming back ou
t onto Haven Street again; and the
12
same thing coming
down, you make one turn if you go
13
i
around the block a
nd come out.
14
MR.
BARTLETT: If there weren't one
15
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there now, who in
this town would want it?
16
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MS.
ZIEGLER: It's a curb cut.
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MR.
BARTLETT: Who would normally
I
18
approve it? Board
of Appeals?
19 !
MS.
ZIEGLER: It's not on the state
20
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highway.
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MR.
PACING: Selectmen, right?
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MR.
VAN MAGNESS: Would a
23 l
clarification be t
here that point of egress to Haven
i
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Street?
DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC.
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MR. BROWN: Yeah, I agree.
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MR. BURDITT: I would expect CPDC is
3
part of the
site plan.
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MR. BARTLETT: My thought no driveway
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access permi
tted except subject to town approval or
6
whatever the
proper authority is.
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MR. PACINO: It's going to have to go
1
8
through site
plan review anyways. It's a change of
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f
use.
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MS. ZIEGLER: It's a change of use.
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MR. BURDITT: CPDC so if you
12
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MR. BARTLETT: Do you really want to
13
restrict wha
t another board may have authority over
14-
if the site
plan has to be approved anyhow?
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's a good
16
point.
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MR. BURDITT: I think so too.
1.8
MR. BARTLETT: I guess that's what
19
I'm saying.
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MR. BURDITT: That's right. I think
I
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it should be
withdrawn.
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: I tend to say let's
23
take that of
f there.
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MR. BURDITT: Yeah, I agree.
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MR.
BARTLETT:
Except where there is
2
a curb cut
if you
wanted to
say subject to.
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MR.
BURDITT:
Everything is subject
4
to. Everyt
hing is
subject t
o.
5
MR.
RUCKER:
Should I eliminate it?
6
MR.
PACING:
What are we saying, take
7
it off?
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MS.
ZIEGLER:
Take it off.
9
MR.
BURDITT:
Take it off.
10
MR.
VAN MAGNE
SS: I think you made a
11
good point,
t
Bart.
12
MS.
ZIEGLER:
We don't need that next
13
i one because
it's g
oing to be
there anyway.
14
MR.
VAN MAGNE
SS: This is our
15
brainstormi
ng cour
se.
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MR.
BURDITT:
Right. Absolutely.
17
MR.
RUCKER:
I'm sorry, I'm writing
18
eliminated,
is tha
t appropri
ate?
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MR.
PACINO:
Yeah.
20
)
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MR.
VAN MAGNE
SS: That will be in
21
your RFP.
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MR.
PACING:
That will have to be.
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MS.
ZIEGLER:
That's in the RFP
24
t ~
t
anyway.
E
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MR. RUCKER: Well, there is a check
all sentence, you must meet all applicable. We may
never_ say what applicable is, but you must meet them
all.
MR. BURDITT: If we say no automotive
uses, do we need to say gas station? Isn't that an
automotive use?
MR. RUCKER: You have that here.
MR. BARTLETT: Under automotive uses
to say no automotive slash trucking sales or
services.
MS. ZIEGLER: Well, under automotive
uses in that area are sale of new and used, service
stations, repair garage.
MR. BURDITT: Yeah.
MS. ZIEGLER: Commercial parking lot,
car wash and auto graveyards are not allowed in
Business B.
MR. BARTLETT: I guess the only
reason I say when you say automotive uses
MR. BURDITT: That's includes gas
stations.
MS. ZIEGLER: Under the zoning.
MR. BARTLETT: In our minds.
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MR. BURDITT: They have to live with
the zoning bylaws.
MR. BARTLETT: Automotive uses, what
does that mean?
MR. BURDITT: I think it's in the
MR. BARTLETT: I realize that in the
RFP we say no automotive uses.
MR. PACING: What Bart is saying
should we be more specific?
MR. BURDITT: No, no, no. It's not
allowed.
MR. BARTLETT: It's not allowed. You
were reading me what's not allowed?
MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah, under B in
automotive uses. You're allowed sale of new and
used cars.
MR.
MS.
you're not allowed
MR.
MR.
but that person ne
MR.
I out.
BURDITT: Are you allowed?
ZIEGLER: Yes, you're only
car washes or auto graveyards.
BURDITT: I'm sorry.
BARTLETT: You're saying no uses,
cessarily isn't saying look here.
VAN MAGNESS: Let's spell these
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MR. BURDITT:
2 Okay,
I MR. VAN
+
3 on that MADNESS: It just elaborates
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MR. BURDITT: You're r•
j want any of those.
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MR. BARTLETT: You can
combine to o n probably
I ne, no au
8 tomotive service
+ sales stations,
i Service stationsf repair.
9
MR
10 f rom , RUCKER: Where do the
? words
come
11
MR. PACINO:
12 ! bylaws. We Right out of the Zonin
' have have here in the Zoning bylaw g
13 to
j e under auto s YOU have
14 motive uses,
15 MR. BARTLETT: Any -
~ -
MR. PACINO: Instead of sa
16 ! automotive
uses, we Yin9 no
j would be a
17 + little bit
specific and eliminate - more'
18
19 MS. ZIEGLER: Eliminate all
automobile uses that are
20 allowed in
Business B.
MR. PACINO:
2 1 ~ No.
MR. BARTLETT:
22 ~ physically thou I w°uld want to do it
gh if it were me.
23
MR.
24 lots here PACINO: No commercial parkin
to eliminate g
the fourth use. There are
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1 ! four uses allowed under the automotive uses. We
2 would specifically say in place of no automotive
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3 uses, you would say specifically no sales of new or
I
4 1 used automobiles, service stations, repair garage,
5 ; commercial parking lots.
6 i MR. RUCKER: So replace with the
7 language o.,n -
8 I
MS. ZIEGLER: Automotive uses.
MR. RUCKER: automotive uses.
10 I MR. PACING: Right.
11 MR. RUCKER: From the B2.
12 MR. BURDITT: To eliminate some that
- 13 are
14 MS. ZIEGLER: Business B.
15 MR. BURDITT: We want to eliminate
16 all the ones that are allowed. Those that are
17 allowed under Business B.
i
18 MR. PACINO: But we'll specifically
19 spell it out as opposed to saying no automotive
I
20 uses.
21 I MR. BURDITT: Right.
22 MR. RUCKER: Can I just ask a
23 question? I'm going to be involved in helping draft
r
24 this. I need to understand it. Is it possible to
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say in the document, just so we
make
sure and
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2
incorporate what you're looking
for,
that one
3
overall. restriction that this is
zoned Business B?
4
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MR. BURDITT: Mm-
hmm.
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MR. PACINO: Righ
t.
MR. RUCKER: You
have
to meet that?
7 (
MS.
ZIEGLER: Yeah.
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MR.
PACINO: Yeah.
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MS.
ZIEGLER: That's not a
10
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restriction that s
hould be
11
MR.
BARTLETT: That's a stipulation.
12 (
MR.
RUCKER: The reason I was asking
13
v
if that is sitting
here somewhere in the documents
14
beforehand, then the person is continuing to read
15 '
on, then this would give additional restrictions.
16
MS.
ZIEGLER: Mm-hmm.
17
MR.
BURDITT: That's right, things
18
that are approved in Business B, but you're
19
saying
20
MR.
RUCKER: You want to eliminate
21
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things in Business
B, thank you.
i
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MR.
BARTLETT: No gas station, no
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automotive, the wor
ds would be to preclude things in
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Business B.
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MR. RUCKER: Even though Business B
would allow it, we want to say go beyond that and
say that doesn't count.
MS. ZIEGLER: We were told we can do
this.
MR. PACINO: We can do this through
the RFP instead of just the zoning changes.
MS. ZIEGLER: We can't do spot
eliminating.
MR. RUCKER: We would write some sort
of statement you have to follow with Business B.
MS. ZIEGLER: Business B zoning.
MR. RUCKER: Business B zoning. In
addition these other restrictions apply. One of
which we'll say all automotive uses allowed under
Business B would not be allowed or something.
MR. BURDITT: And list those.
MR. RUCKER: And list those
specifically.
MR. BURDITT: Sale of autos.
MR. RUCKER: We'll put in all the
right words. We're wonderful with all those catchy
phrases. We call them escape clauses.
(Discussion off record)
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, I mean, we're
determining who this property can be sold to and
those are the things that we're putting as a
restriction on, you know, I mean
MR. BARTLETT: I'm not arguing with
you. I'm just
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I agree you'll
probably end up there.
(Discussion off record)
MR. BARTLETT: This basically was
left to you and you will review it with your counsel
when the RFP is drafted, I'm sure.
MR. RUCKER: Well, we will except in
these type of areas since we real estate is not
our area of expertise. Frankly, what I'll probably
do is call Peter.
MR. BARTLETT: Have town counsel
review it.
MR. RUCKER: He and I get together
once of a month.
MS. ZIEGLER: These are restrictions
we want and it has to go to the selectmen.
MR. RUCKER: I would just as a
political courtesy show it to Peter and anything
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else Peter says I.got a concern for whatever reason
he would go to Bart Chamber.
MS. ZIEGLER: Maybe you should run it
by him next week before our next meeting.
MR. RUCKER: We don't meet next
week. He and I have regularly scheduled meetings,
the first Monday of the month or whatever it is.
MS. ZIEGLER: Holidays.
MR. RUCKER: Peter is the one who
made the schedule. Sometimes we have to shift it a
day or two just from both schedules. Neither one of
us saw any advantage of meeting any more than that,
but my schedule gets filled up fairly quick and so
does his. You can't get a meeting put together in
only a week's notice, usually it's pretty hard.
MR. BARTLETT: I wouldn't envision
really counsel is only going to change wording or
they are just going to say, hey, no way, no
discussion. At least that's my experience with town
counsel.
MS. ZIEGLER: We can say it doesn't
have a value impact on the neighborhood.
MR. BARTLETT: If you want.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Are those
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the those were all we came up with in all of our
meetings. Are we ready to close on those, that
those are the restrictions we want?
MR. BROWN: Absolutely.
MR. PACINO: I am.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Can we take a vote
to motion to approve that the desired restrictions
as noted on our chart of July 28 excluding the
driveways access
MR. BURDITT: As amended.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: as amended?
MR. BURDITT: On what?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: 24th.
MR. BURDITT: 24th, as amended on the
24th.
MS. ZIEGLER: And the bylaw thing is
off too, that doesn't need to be there.
MR. PACING: As amended on the as
amended through the 24th because we have done
several amendments on this in several meetings
through September 24 is how the motion
MR. BURDITT: August 24?
MR. PACINO: September 24 August
24.
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: Second?
MS. ZIEGLER: Second.
MR. PACINO: All those in favor say
I.
(All members respond "I")
MR. PACINO: Opposed? Let the record
show we passed unanimously six, zero.
Len, do you have any questions that you
need a clarification on?
MR. RUCKER: No. What I'm going to
do is we will the general formats we'll use,
we'll say once again about the Business B.
MR. PACINO: Right.
MR. RUCKER: You have to meet that
and you have to meet all applicable state laws. We
put all that language in there and in addition to
those you must meet these specific restrictions and
list them and put these in the right format and then
list them as you have.
MR. PACING: All right.
MR. RUCKER: It would all be in a
section called special conditions.
MS. ZIEGLER: That has to go in our
report to the selectmen too.
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106
MR. RUCKER: First of all, we'll word
process all this stuff if you want for purposes of
your presentation. You could almost tell us any
areas and we can pull it out on slides or put it on
a separate sheet.
(Discussion off record)
MR. VAN MAGNESS: So we got that
done.
MR. PACINO: Right. We talked to
Paul Sweeney, we talked about the appraisals, we
talked about the time line is coming back, the RFP,
the preliminary draft report.
Fred, what kind of format do we want the
preliminary report in? Is there any particular
format: that we want that report in at this point?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: My recommendation
would be to take the charts that we have and to go
through a report in words that state, you know, we
held "X" number of meetings, you know, who the
committee members were so it's nice official reports
and go through it. The first item was develop
mission statement, here's what it was, then go
through the process of the things that we looked at
and then almost go verbatim the things we listed
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down in our charts as exhibits. And then, you know,
say we have developed, you know, the definition in
our terms of what we think the best acceptable bid
means and then here's what the desired restrictions
are that we think and that there are no zoning
changes that we could think of and no action is
required to go before town meeting; but here's the
story, call us if you need more. I think you've got
by virtue of all the work we did, you've got the
entire outline for the report. It's just putting it
in words.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
is going to pay of
MS.
lose these charts.
PACING: Okay.
VAN MAGNESS: Personal opinion.
BROWN: Yeah. Short and sweet.
VAN MAGNESS: The hard work early
f down at the end here.
ZIEGLER: As long as we don't
MR. PACING: We won't lose these
charts. Make sure we don't lose these charts. All
right?
MR. RUCKER: Jim knows where they
are. I didn't.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: He didn't want to
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lose them.
MR. RUCKER: He actually had them put
aside. I didn't think to look in the board room.
MR. PACING: Should we have an
executive summary up at the front of the report? I
see a lot of reports that have I know people like
to have that up front as opposed to going through
all the detail behind it.
MR. BARTLETT: What you're saying is
put this in a brief or not a lot of words chart
i
form. It's pretty concise.
MR. PACINO: Fine.
MR. BARTLETT : Like the mission
I
doesn't need any more words than right there.
Restrictions, we're not going to write it in the way
he's going to write it in the RFP. These are the
restrictions. We're not presenting the real legal
terminology to the selectmen or the Light Board.
We're leaving that to the we'll approve it but
MR. VAN MAGNESS: If you do a page
like charts, like these are, when you go to the
meeting with the selectmen and RMLD and I presume
the CAB will be there or whoever is at the meeting,
I'll have these things on overhead transparencies
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and walk through this puppy.
MR. BARTLETT: As well as a handout.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. And there
should be a cover letter that says here's what we
did.
MR. BARTLETT: You're talking to the
experts.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Oh, I know.
MR. BARTLETT: You might start it off
with a history of what we did.
MR. PACINO: I'm just trying to get
the format so we can get started.
MR. RUCKER: How about if I try this
next time, we'll go ahead and talk about a good
backup. If anything else, we'll get that onto a
slide presentation format.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Great.
MR. RUCKER: That way they are in the
computer. I can just print out a copy for you. You
can keep modifying it as it goes along right up
until the day before the meeting, and we can make
the changes. Then just turn it in in 35 millimeter
slides or overhead.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's super.
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MR. BURDITT: We have been meeting on
Wednesdays. We have two meetings before the
selectmen's meeting.
MR. RUCKER: And you can have it on
to the large screen with music and bouncing
figures.
MR. PACING: We have cable and we
also have a video system that these things can be
put onto.
MR. BURDITT: It's tied into cable?
MR. RUCKER: It's tied into cable.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I like the idea we
do that on charts, do all this fancy stuff now
because I presume when it comes time for town
meeting in October or November, we may make a you
may want to have a report to town meeting as well
and use exactly the same charts. It's all down.
MR. RUCKER: Once it's in the
i
computer it's done. The new software is amazing.
You put it in outline format and it makes it look
wonderful.
(Discussion off record)
MR. PACINO: Okay. Next meeting is
when? When do we want to meet?
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: I'll tell you when
I can't meet, I cannot meet next Wednesday night. I
have a FinCom meeting.
(Discussion off record)
MR. RUCKER: Can I ask a question
because I remember from the last meeting I
thought. and the reason I didn't prepare for this
meeting was because I thought I was never coming to
another meeting. It's becoming obvious to me I
should put this in my schedule. Should I from now
on?
MR. PACING: I think so.
MR. RUCKER: Because I omitted being
i
involved, I just assumed everything
MR. BURDITT: We have the 13th and
there are only two more weeks. The most we have is
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two more meetings. I don't think we want more than
one meeting in a week.
MR. PACING: The 13th is on a
Tuesday.
MR. RUCKER: Yes.
MR. PACINO: Okay. So we've got next
week and the week after.
MR. BURDITT: For Wednesday, it's the
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31st.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think you need a
meeting next week. You've just got to pick when.
MR. PACINO: I think I would stay
with the 31st.
MS. ZIEGLER: I won't be here.
MR. PACINO: You won't be here
either?
MR. BURDITT: How about the 1st which
is a Thursday? Can anybody make it for Thursday?
MS. ZIEGLER: No. I'm out the whole
week.
MR. PACINO: The whole week. Fred?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. Just FinCom.
MR. PACING: Could you make a meeting
on the 1st?
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Thursday night, the
1st, yeah.
MR. PACING: Because I'm concerned
I don't know what Dick Howard's schedule is. We'll
be in touch with Dick and Bill Kennedy. I guess
it's difficult with Bill for the business. It's
kind of erratic. Why don't we schedule for the
1st. Let's schedule for the 1st.
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MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
again and we'll co
MR.
here, yes, I'll be
MR.
BURDITT: Here at 6:30?
PACINO: Right.
RUCKER: 6:30?
PACINO: Can we meet in this room
me through here?
RUCKER: Since I'm going to be
here anyway.
PACINO: We're going to have the
slides, should we be
MR. VAN MAGNESS: We can move
around.
MR. BARTLETT: We don't care about
Ithe slides, just the handout.
MR. PACING: We're going to have
slides.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: 6:30 okay?
MR. PACING: 6:30 is fine. I'd kind
of like to keep to our schedule, keep it from 6:30
to 8:30.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Do we have an
agenda?
MR. PACING: That's the next thing.
MR. BURDITT: There is two things,
preliminary draft and
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MR. PACING: We would review the
appraisal.
MR. BURDITT: Appraisal, RFP and
presentation.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Maybe we have the
same agenda.
MR. PACING: Yeah, I think we're
pretty much on the same agenda. Maybe some in
different order, time line obviously first. I think
we should review the appraisal and go back and
review the conditions under the RFP. I don't know
whether or not we the report would be
MR. VAN MAGNESS: You're going to try
to have it mac'd up or whatever, chart mastered?
MR. RUCKER: Yeah.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: By the way, is
Marguerite going to call people? I didn't get a
call for this particular week?
i
MS. ZIEGLER: I didn't either.
MR. BARTLETT: She obviously called
those that were delinquent.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: Oh.
I
MR. RUCKER: I see. I honestly had
gotten out of the process so
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MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't even know
Marguerite.
MR. PACING: I think we only call
those that have not been here. If you were here
last week, we assumed you knew. We assumed you
knew.
MR. VAN MAGNESS: I have it down,
just checking.
MS. ZIEGLER: I think we're at the
point we're here. If we say we'll be here, we'll be
here or we will call and tell you we won't.
MR. RUCKER: Can I make sure
MR. PACING: The last item the
parking definitions, I was unable to catch up with
Ted Cohen. When he was in I wasn't, and when I was
in he wasn't. I'll get information for that for the
next meeting. I'll try to reach him again.
MR. RUCKER: I was wondering if I
could just go over what I wrote down so I make sure
we show up with what it is you think we're going to
show up with. One is the revised time line.
MR. BURDITT: Yeah.
MR. RUCKER: Two is the draft RFP for
the appraisal services, three is the special
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conditions
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MR.
PACING: Right.
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MR.
RUCKER: portion will be
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basically that
it
won't be the whole request for
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bids and what
I ca
ll the mac slides. In other
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words, we take
all
this stuff and you'll have kind
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of a prelimina
ry presentation of the board for your
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meeting.
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MR.
VAN MAGNESS: Yeah.
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MR.
RUCKER: Those will be the four
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items we show
up w
ith. Do you desire any of those
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in advance of
the
meeting?
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MR.
VAN MAGNESS: No.
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MR.
BURDITT: No.
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MR.
BROWN: No. We have done quite
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well.
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MR.
RUCKER: I've got it in my book.
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We'll have them.
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MR.
BURDITT: Good. Will we
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adjourn?
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MS.
ZIEGLER: Second.
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MR.
PACINO: It's been seconded to
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adjourn. All
thos
e in favor say I.
1
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- I
I
(All
mem
bers respond "I")
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DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC.