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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-02-07 ad Hoc Haven Street Task Force Minutes`t 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS TOWN OF READING 25 HAVEN STREET SALE TASK FORCE MEETING MINUTES Tuesday, February 7, 1995 230 Ash Street Reading, Massachusetts Commence 7:31 p.m. Pages 1 to 72 Reporter: Tracy D. Helms DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. Professional Shorthand Reporters 59 Temple Place Boston, Massachusetts 02111 (617) 542-0039 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PRESENT: NAME Fred Van Magness as Vice-Chairman William C. Brown Mollie Ziegler Willard Burditt Hartnell Bartlett Leonard Rucker James Bloml_ey David Swyter AFFILIATION FinCom Citizen at Large Board of Assessors Selectman RMLD CAB RMLD RMLD RMLD Commissioner DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 P R O C E E D I N G S MR. VAN MAGNESS: We're in session. The first order of business that I have is we have minutes that are outstanding from the December 21, 1994 meeting. Those were mailed to everyone's home. MS. ZIEGLER: I forgot them. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Hopefully everyone had a chance to review them for corrections. (Hartnell Bartlett enters meeting) MR. VAN MAGNESS: Hi, Bart. MR. BARTLETT: Hi. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The Chair would entertain any motions. MR. BURDITT: I move that we approve the minutes of December 21. MR. BROWN: I second that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The motion has been made to approve the minutes of December 21. Any comments or discussion or changes? Having none appear all those in favor signify by raising your right hand. Opposed? Passed, five, zero, zero. MR. BURDITT: Five or six? MR. SWYTER: I abstain or I stand DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. ;i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 4 aside. Why don't I stand aside for the vote. MR. BURDITT: By position MR. SWYTER: Making it simple I stand aside. MR. BURDITT: By position I think you have to. MS. ZIEGLER: He wasn't here at the meetings. MR. BURDITT: You're absolutely right. MR. SWYTER: I stand aside. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You stand aside. MR. SWYTER: I do. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So voted. MR. BROWN: Depending whose rules of law abstentions of votes don't count anyways. MR. SWYTER: That's right. MR. BROWN: You have the right to abstain. You don't have the right to say you abstain. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess at this point I'd like to turn the discussion over to Len Rucker to explain what we have in our packets. MR. RUCKER: It's pretty DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 straightforward. You had the bid packets. In the bid packets the only additional information was the results from the appraisal which had been made public. So both the both appraisals were in the package. The bids were opened. You can handle that. We had two bids, the same two bidders. Mr. Rubin made the same identical bid, same as before. It was rejected on the same basis you saw before. And Mr. Hodson reduced his bid and also didn't complete all the MR. BLOMLEY: All the forms. MR. RUCKER: all the forms of the certification. So it wouldn't be a valid bid even if the price had been higher. So we once again, it was easy to do the analysis. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. So we have two bids received by the department and none are being recommended? MR. RUCKER: Correct. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. MR. BROWN: I guess we should turn it back to town meeting again as we discussed the last time. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, that is an DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 option, that we could go back before town meeting. MS. ZIEGLER: What about another appraisal? MR. BURDITT: Why would we do another appraisal? MS. ZIEGLER: Maybe somebody would come in with a lower appraisal. MR. BURDITT: I'm not sure why we would want a lower appraisal. MS. ZIEGLER: I because I think it's too high, and so does my board. MR. BURDITT: Really. MS. ZIEGLER: They haven't looked at the appraisal. It's there for them to look at. MR. BURDITT: I think maybe maybe it's up to us to put forth something to town meeting, maybe look at things other than the appraised value. I think that and that's basically what I thought most of tonight's meeting was to be about, to see whether we wanted -to bring something to town meeting. Warrant closes next Tuesday night. So if we're to do something, tonight is the night to do something and discuss what we want to bring to town DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 7 1 meeting. 2 We've gone out twice and neither time has 3 it come to the appraised value. We felt we really 4 shouldn't even talk to the higher bidder, you know, 5 just town meeting wants us to do that or what is the 6 direction of town meeting. I guess I think we 7 should draft something or somebody one of the 8 lawyers or somebody should draft something to put in 9 the warrant. 9 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's not be 1 let's not make that a final conclusion. MR. BURDITT: No. 3 MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's an option. I MR. BURDITT: Mm-hmm> i MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's an option as i to draft something in terms of the warrant. The objective that we had here was to not only maximize the return to the ratepayers but also to maximize the return to the town. And the inclination might be to go out and to possibly go to town meeting and say either we should do another another appraisal or we want relief from the restrictions that were placed on this by town meeting. In other words the sale only at 1 1 1 1 1 1. 1< l~ 2( 2: 2, 2; 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 8 1 MS. ZIEGLER: Land value. 2 MR. VAN MAGNESS: the appraised 3 value or more. However, another approach we could 4 take is go out and actively market the property; and 5 I don't know whether that's legal in municipal 6 jargon, whether you can hang a sign on it. 7 MR. RUCKER: It may be for the light 8 department because we don't come under the Uniform 9 Procurement Act is our understanding, and I placed a 10 call to Peter today. But he and I just were never 11 able to connect because I was trying to explore Ted 12Cohen from the town's point of view would give some -13 indication as to whether there was flexibility on 14 the town. Our understanding is there isn't, but 15 we're hardly experts in an action that doesn't apply 16 to us. 17 MS. ZIEGLER: Look at that piece of 18 land on Green Street in the paper, that's a minimum 19 bid of what? 20 MR. VAN MAGNESS: $2,600. 21 MS. ZIEGLER: Only to adjacent 22 abutters. 23 MR. BURDITT: We've already voted on 24 that. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 9 4 F 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think you know in relationship to this particular property we have one bid here that is so low I'm not sure it's really even worthy of discussion to what you said. We have another bid that's been in twice. It's a little bit lower than the first time and it's nondescript. We have no idea what's going to be placed on the property or anything else. And it almost one could conclude there that this process is getting to be trivial pursuit. And we can play their game for a while or we could go out and contact some companies, professional organizations that are in the business of marketing property, commercial property or whatever, and pass to them all the criteria that we've established from this committee and enlist their support to identify potential people to maybe go into that property. Now, it might cost us, obviously, some percent of the sale value to make that happen, but we may we may be more inclined to do that because I don't want to go out and what do you tell town meeting. I guess maybe to make it clear, what do you go to town meeting for? You don't even have a particular bid that even appears to be bona fide. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 10 1 MR. BURDITT: Well, I think that's 2 the reason why we need to bring something to town 3 meeting. The world knows what the appraisal value 4 is now. I mean, it's absolutely public. 5 We found at our last meeting that our 6 hands were tied or we felt our hands were tied in 7 even discussing with the higher bidder because he 8 was not greater than the appraised value, what he 9 could do or where we could go with it. So what I 10 thought is we would talk to town meeting or maybe 11 bring something to town meeting to look for some 12 kind of relief. I mean, if our hands are tied and 13 it's only accepting a bid greater than the appraised 14 value, we could be sittingfor years and years and 15 years through this or like Mollie said, if we go out 16 for another appraisal, that will do something 17 different. 18 MS. ZIEGLER: We have two 19 appraisals. We have it empty and a building. 20 MR. BURDITT: As town meeting said 21 sell it 22 MS. ZIEGLER: We have two. 23 MR. BURDITT: to the highest. 24 MS. ZIEGLER: We have two as if the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 . 21 22 23 24 building is going to be torn down, the land value. Can we legally go with that one? MR. BURDITT: I wouldn't. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Well, then you know MS. ZIEGLER: Because what's it going to do to the building? They are going to have to tear it down probably. MR. VAN MAGNESS: You don't know that. MS. ZIEGLER: We don't have anything any idea what Hodson is going to do. We didn't before either. The bid came in that same way. MR. BROWN: Right, nondescript. MS. ZIEGLER: If he is going to tear it down and start over, then he's above the bid or the appraisal. MR. BURDITT: But not necessarily. We have I won't say conflicting groups, but we have RMLD that will get the sale price, that will get the MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. MR. BURDITT: Say it's $50,000, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that's all RMLD will get. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. MR. BURDITT: The town will get any benefit MS. ZIEGLER: Right. MR. BURDITT: from something greater than that. But yet I think we're looking for the good of all of the MS. ZIEGLER: We are. MR. BURDITT: ratepayers, which is not just the Town of Reading. And the appraisal, the appraisal is $450,000. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. MS. ZIEGLER: Empty 300. MR. RUCKER: May I make just a point Jim had made. It might be material to your discussion. Independent of whether the building was on it or the land value or any of those issues is purely just a bid. They didn't conform to the bid. MS. ZIEGLER: Oh, okay. MR. RUCKER: So it's an invalid bid on the surface. MR. VAN MAGNESS: But I if we could in fact legally, and I think we need to get DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that question answered and maybe, you know, tonight, if we legally could go out and initially market that property with a number of real estate concerns or commercial concerns. MR. BROWN: I don't think you can. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't know. We need to check. MR. RUCKER: I'm checking on something now and, hopefully, I can get you an answer in a second. MR. VAN MAGNESS: If we could do that, I think it would bring into the market a greater number of potential opportunity than what you're doing. MR. BROWN: There is no question, Freddie. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I get called at work two, three times a week on trying to buy property that I have, and I've got lots of it. (Discussion off record) MR. VAN MAGNESS: But these brokers are hungry to get listings out there. And I hate to just take a process we have gone through the process twice. We've run down a dead end street. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 14 } f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 We haven't really been attracting a good response to the newspaper advertising. So rather than to necessarily go back and say well, we really ought to change the process or we need a bigger latitude, there may be some of that; but I'm not for trying to enhance these potential bidders right now. I'm more interested in seeing what else is out there. MR. BROWN: I think in the Reading Business Park it was determined you couldn't hire a broker. Is that not right, Bill? I don't believe the town can hire a broker. MS. ZIEGLER: Maybe the light department can. MR. SWYTER: Town can't. Light department might be able to. MR. BROWN: Go to town meeting, let the light department sell it on their own; and certainly that's going to be for the best interest of everybody. MR. BURDITT: I think maybe what we do is go to town meeting for a couple of things. One is, maybe the light department if it's legal goes and puts a sign on the front of the building; but in the meantime we also talk to town meeting and DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 15 say we've had two shots. We're not, you know, within $50,000, not that we won't sell it. MS. ZIEGLER: They didn't even conform to the bid. MR. BURDITT: The second time. The first time I think he did. MS. ZIEGLER: No, he'didn't. MR. BURDITT: I think the first time was 400,000. MS. ZIEGLER: No, he didn't. MR. BLOMLEY: Didn't meet the minimum. MR. BARTLETT: He didn't meet the price. MR. BURDITT: Oh, he didn't meet the price. MS. ZIEGLER: Did he do the other parts to the bid? MR. SWYTER: His bid was complete. It wasn't the value. MR. BLOMLEY: All bids were complete. They didn't meet the minimum criteria. MS. ZIEGLER: This says he didn't conform to the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. MR. attitude I know it MS. the specs, did he, MR. MR. MR. of the price. BURDITT: BARTLETT: already. ZIEGLER: before? SWYTER: BURDITT: BLOMLEY: 16 That's the second time. He probably took the He didn't conform to Yes, he did before. Yes. I'm sorry, no, because MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. MR. BURDITT: But MR. BLOMLEY: Documentwise they complied. MS. ZIEGLER: two, three and four were not MR. BURDITT: MR. BLOMLEY: time. The first time the complied except for they did MS. ZIEGLER: MR. BLOMLEY: by town meeting. I think th MR. BARTLETT: took the attitude so what. It says bid forms parts submitted with bid. That's the second time. That's the second first time both parties not meet the criteria. The price. The criteria set forth at was the issue. I think this time he DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 17 1 MR. BROWN: He told us that already. 2 MR. BLOMLEY: The article stated the 3 minimum price would be the appraisal value. 4 MR. BROWN: I think he told us when 5 he left here he was going to bid a low price. 6 MR. BURDITT: Everybody knows the 7 price. So I think all I would look to ask town 8 meeting for was the latitude to talk to the people. 9 I mean, we felt our hands were tied. They said it's 10 got to be the minimum appraised value and neither 11 party was the minimum appraised value. But if we 12 could ha ve talked and said there were other 13 benefits , you know, might that change and we 14 couldn't do that. 15 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Agreed. 16 MR. BURDITT: I think that might be 17 what we might ask town meeting to do. Ask can we 18 discuss to see whether 19 MS. ZIEGLER: We got two appraisals 20 but one is vacant and one is as is. 21 MR. BURDITT: Well 22 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think the other 23 thing yo u've got to look at 24 MS. ZIEGLER: And the minimum DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1.3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 appraisal was 300. MR. BURDITT: I tell you if I was one of the other three communities, I certainly wouldn't want a vacant MS. ZIEGLER: But the building is not worth anything. It needs an awful lot done to it. MR. BURDITT: It's a $400,000 difference. MS. ZIEGLER: $150,000. MR. BURDITT: $150,000 difference. I mean I MS. ZIEGLER: It's going to take him more than that to bring it up to code. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I think the other question is is it is really that a question to town meeting or is it a question to both the RMLD and the Board of Selectmen that the process that we're following MR. BURDITT: I think MR. BROWN: We're to report to them. MR. BURDITT: I think we're tied into what was directed by town meeting. It was not the MR. RUCKER: The process being DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 19 followed is being followed because we understood it. Our attorney Ted Cohen hasn't really been he may have been involved, I just don't know; but the Uniform Procurement Act clearly says you've got to do it this way. MR. BURDITT: The process I think being that you need the appraised value. MR. RUCKER: Yeah. MR. BURDITT: I can't sell for less than the appraised value is I think what we're I think that's what you're saying with the process. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. MR. BURDITT: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: It was correlated to -that. The snake chart we have that we have been following along the line here Bays this committee can't evaluate any bids until we have a selected bid from MR. BURDITT: I don't think that matters because I think MR. VAN MAGNESS: Go back and check the process. MR. BURDITT: No. No. No. I' m not looking for the process. What I' m looking at is the DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 direction from town meeting that says you won't sell it less than the appraised value. MR. VAN MAGNESS: They didn't say we couldn't discuss it. That comes out of this process here. MR. BURDITT: Even if you discuss it, what good is it if they're not going to pay you the appraised value? MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess part of the consideration is that once you had an adequate discussion possibly with a potential bidder, you might be able to sort out why they bid is "X". They might have bid a specific price on the basis that they would take care of any hazard abatement or tank removals or a lot of other things or you could have another bidder that hits the exact, you know, appraised value and says you have to go spend all this money to do the mitigation of hazards or whatever that are on site; and both of them could end up with the same net answer. And you can't talk to anybody because the RMLD staff has the job according to this document that we've been working to to review proposals and reject inadequate proposals; and then if there is an adequate one, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 select it and recommend it to the Ha Task Force. So we cannot go up that because of this process. And I guess the question I process that's preventing this thing was established by MR. BURDITT: A whole of ven Street Sale pipeline have is that from going up different group MS. ZIEGLER: Who was it established by? MR. BURDITT: The lawyers. MR. SWYTER: Process of negotiation I think was the Board of Selectmen and the department, the light board. MS. ZIEGLER: Light board. MR. SWYTER: And the task force. MS. ZIEGLER: We had no say on that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. We had no say on this. MR. SWYTER: No one put into that? MS. ZIEGLER: No. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. So we can't go up this little pipe here and do anything with any bid if we can't get one that meets the minimum DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 22 acceptable bid. We which is a real encumbrance upon the whole process. MR. BROWN: Simple thing is go back, amend the article, take out the MR. BURDITT: That's what I was saying. MR. BROWN: less than the appraised value. All others is terms and conditions, and we can give to the Board of Selectmen and RMLD the terms and conditions we feel are adequate. Freddie, like you say, the guy might want to enhance the area. Merely by getting rid of those that word MR. BARTLETT: I agree. I don't see that process as being an impediment if you want to call the impediment. The article is pretty clear. MS. ZIEGLER: We go out and get all kinds of bids for 50,000 or $75,000 next time. MR. BURDITT: Written appraisal prepared. MR. SWYTER: Has to be accepted if you get rid of the Uniform Procurement Act. MS. ZIEGLER: Town can't. MR. SWYTER: We can. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (Pause) MS. ZIEGLER: In order to transfer the care, custody or management from the light board to the Board of Selectmen. MR. SWYTER: The question is who holds title. That's why both parties weren't brought together. MS. ZIEGLER: It's to both boards, okay. MR. SWYTER: The ownership is clearly the ratepayers. In my mind it's clearly the ratepayers as rates paid for, but the clear title we need to go through the process. The light board may be able to waive the Uniform Procurement Act, but the town association may become incumbent and not be able to waive a lot of the Uniform Procurement Act. MR. BARTLETT: If it was the desired route merely a change in wording that it be not less than the minimum vacant appraised value, if that's MS. ZIEGLER: That could be a better one, the vacant land appraised price. MR. BARTLETT: I only throw that out as a place to get started around this stumbling DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 block. MR. RUCKER: There is a little bit of background. You asked the question about I think, Mollie, about the appraisal. What we're referring to here is the procurement manual issued by the office of the Inspector General, and I'll just read to you Chapter 30B, which is the Uniform Procurement Act. (Leonard Rucker proceeds to cite from excerpts of Chapter 30B of the Uniform Procurement Act) MR. RUCKER: If on the other hand your jurisdiction seeks to promote other objectives through the disposition, then the task is more complex. In that case RFP may specify how prepared according to number and mix of this different criteria, whatever criteria. So their basic point is, as we understand it, you have to put into the bid what the evaluation criteria is. MS. ZIEGLER: And we did that. MR. RUCKER: Which you did. MR. BARTLETT: So you would be free to say you must meet all these other requirements we set down and a minimum of 80 percent of, and I picked that off the top of my head, you don't have DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22. 23 24 to use it, the appraised value. MR. BURDITT: That was town meeting. MS. ZIEGLER: We could get them to change the motion to the minimum of the appraised the vacant land appraisal. MR. BARTLETT: Well, I only throw that out as a percentage of the appraised value. MR. BURDITT: I wouldn't want Rubin coming in and saying I'll give you 50,500 and tear it down and it becomes a parking lot. Then the town gets zero. MS. ZIEGLER: No. No, it doesn't. Vacant land has MR. BURDITT: Has a parking lot. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah. Yeah. MR. BURDITT: Not compared to what an office building would be. MS. ZIEGLER: The land is worth something. Look at your house value, the land around your house. MR. BURDITT: I understand. And I look at that property and it's certainly worth a lot more. MS. ZIEGLER: The vacant land is DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 worth three hundred. The building is worth one hundred fifty. So this guy said MR. BROWN: Not under this proposal because he wants to give it back to the town as a parking lot and the town gets zero. MS. ZIEGLER: The town doesn't have to accept it. MR. BURDITT: Even if they didn't, what would be the taxable value of a parking lot? MS. ZIEGLER: The land value. The same rate as you pay on your house. MR. BURDITT: I would much rather have a building there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Probably is a you know, it's probably kind of rhetorical here. We're not going to probably do that because it's certainly not going to maximize the return to the ratepayers or the RMLD. MR. BARTLETT: It has to meet the other requirements that are laid down. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah, but we've got to get rid of it. MR. BROWN: Mr. Chairman. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BROWN: For the sake of argument, can I throw in a motion? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Absolutely. MR. BROWN: I move to recommend that the Board of Selectmen and/or the Municipal Light Board insert an article into the Annual Town Warrant to amend Article 16. Strike the words "for an amount not less than". MR. BURDITT: Article 16 of the Annual Town Meeting of April 11, 1994. MR. BROWN: Article 16 of the Annual Town Meeting of April 11, 1994, strike the words "for an amount not less than the appraised value" and leave the rest as is. MR. VAN MAGNESS: A motion has been made. Is there a second? MS. ZIEGLER: Second. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? MS. ZIEGLER: I think we should put a price clause in there. MR. BARTLETT: You've got to have a strong clause to object any and all bids. It's wide open now. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. ZIEGLER: It's wide open except the $25,000 one. MR. BARTLETT: I guess the other one I would get a little concerned with is we have a statute that says you may do an appraisal and, in fact, we did; and then you can completely disregard it. I can see setting a fairly high percentage of the appraisal or some other option, but just to disregard what's done. MS. ZIEGLER: Not less than the land value appraisal. MR. BROWN: It says under such terms and--c ondit= o.ns, an-d----t-hat's what we're setting here is the terms and conditions of the sale; and that's the standard vote that's been in town meeting for God knows how many years. MR. RUCKER: Yeah, but that was your all as I understand it, all your prior sales of real estate you might have done was prior to the Uniform Procurement Act. A lot changed when that act came into being. As we understand it I wish we had an attorney here because we're really bad attorneys. But as we understand from reading this, the law has nothing to do with town meeting. The DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 29 law requires you to determine the value of the property, and you must use the minimums. You must use the valid procedures customarily accepted by the appraising profession. MR. SWYTER: That's under the Uniform Procurement Act. MR. RUCKER: Yes. The issue here is for the town. Remember, the RMLD does not come under this act. This restriction doesn't apply to the RMLD. MR. SWYTER: We don't have to follow it. MR. RUCKER: The statute doesn't apply to us at all. MR. BURDITT: We do. MR. SWYTER: You do, but the department does not. MR. BURDITT: We're still not sure who is going to convey. MR. SWYTER: I understand. MR. BURDITT: We've tried to determine in the best interest of both of us. We will we will. meet the maximum. It also says to convey all or any part of such property and forget DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 30 r` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that it says for an amount not less than the appraised value. If we strike that, but upon such terms and conditions as the Board of Selectmen and the Municipal Light Board shall consider proper. So I think we you know, if we have an off-the-wall bid, we certainly can reject it because we wouldn't consider that to be proper. MS. ZIEGLER: Yeah, but we have to define in the RFP what proper is. MR. BARTLETT: We could MR. BURDITT: I don't know that we do. Do we? MR. BARTLETT: In place of that wording that was just what the motion suggested be deleted. We could, in fact, insert a minimum bid or recommend to the town meeting they insert a minimum bid. MR. BURDITT: We did that and that's the appraised value of $450,000. That's what town meeting said we had to do. MR. SWYTER: What's the tax base value, do you know? MS. ZIEGLER: It's tax exempt right now. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 31 1 MR. SWYTER: That's right. 2 MS. ZIEGLER: It's upward of nine 3 hundred, that stuff hasn't been looked at for ages. 4 MR. BURDITT: That took a big jump 5 one year, huge jump one year. 6 MR. VAN MAGNESS: I guess one of the 7 questions that I have is is that all the wording 8 that we need to take out of there? If you go up 9 three lines above where it says, less than the 10 appraised value, it talks about a written appraisal 11 made by a qualified commercial property appraisal 12 firm to determine the minimum amount to be paid for 13 such conveyance. 14 MR. SWYTER: Strike that out. 15 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Somehow. 16 MS. ZIEGLER: No. You can leave that 17 -_n and say that we need to get it appraised. But it 18 doesn't say we are -to sell for the appraisal price, 19 if you mark out that stuff that's all in caps. 20 MR. BARTLETT: Yeah, but if you read 21 the whole thing, it says to determine.a minimum. 22 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yeah. 23 MR. BARTLETT: You've got to delete 24 the whole section, I agree if you delete it. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 1 1 1. 11~ 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 32 1 MR. RUCKER: If I could pass on an 2 observation. Only in the few times that RMLD has 3 been involved in motions at town meeting, the way 4 I've always seen it work, no matter what any parties 5 put forth, whether it was the commission, an outside 6 party, task force, whatever 7 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. 8 MR. RUCKER: ultimately it's the 9 town counsel. 0 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. That's I right. MR. RUCKER: That's right. So this might kind of alleviate the burden of if you have a E particular intention, if you get the intention across. MR. BURDITT: Yeah. MR. RUCKER: Then counsel's job is to find the right combination of words to cause your intention to be executed. It might save you from the burden of going through every word and trying to understand it, delete it and modify it. The other thing is in the case of something with the RMLD, our general counsel would have to review it too. Then what happens is Ted DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Cohen and. Ken Barna get on the phone and finally the words are put together, all the parties' interests are protected. I know from experience it's a very arduous process with two attorneys involved, it's going to be a very arduous process for you to try to do it here. MR. BROWN: A simpler way to do it would be to MS. ZIEGLER: Rescind the vote. MR. BROWN: rescind the article and have the attorneys write a new article. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have one motion on the floor right now. MR. BROWN: Sorry. Just asking. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We're going to have to I think the intent here is to take out the words on the appraised value and I think they could probably redraft this if we give them this guidance that we would like that to happen. MR. BROWN: That I would like to see happen anyways. MR. BARTLETT: The motion is to take out any appraised value completely. MS. ZIEGLER: We might have to leave DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 it in. MR. BARTLETT: Or just those few words. MR. BROWN: Or just those few words. MR. SWYTER: Just the caps. MR. BROWN: The caps, yeah. I think everything else spells out exactly what Len said in the Uniform Procurement Act and the way I read it; but again, they pay town counsel $95,000 a year, we're not the lawyers. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let them reword it. MR. BROWN: Right, let them reword it. That's the only strong objection I have. MR. BURDITT: I think what we need to do tonight is draft something that can go to the selectmen next Tuesday night for a warrant article, and I think there is two to three weeks to get the exact words of a warrant article. Once the I forget what the term is, the umbrella MS. ZIEGLER: Subject matter. MR. BROWN: Is there going to be a special coming up, Bill? MR. BURDITT: MR. BROWN: Not that I know of. The only thing I'm saying DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 is this does not take effect until July 1. If there were a special MR. BURDITT: There is a spot in the warrant article draft for this because I told them I thought this was coming so that Peter is going to throw in a draft of the warrant. They are expecting something. MS. ZIEGLER: We need a general article that can be modified, but it just can't be rewritten. It's got to be pretty close to what we want the night it closes. MR. BURDITT: It's got to be in the umbrella. MS. ZIEGLER: Subject matter, scope. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We still have a motion on the table. We should be discussing this particular motion. MR. BURDITT: I think that's what we are doing. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I just want to make sure we're staying on track. MR. BURDITT: We're discussing what we want to put in because that's for the warrant article I think. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BROWN: My motion is to construct to take those words out as of now. MR. BURDITT: Isn't that the warrant article you're talking about? MR. BROWN: Yes. MR. BURDITT: So I think what we're talking about is the warrant article, to amend this previous warrant article. And is this what we want for the warrant article I think. MR. SWYTER: Are you ready for a motion? MR. MR. MR. continue that moti opinion before you MR. because BURDITT: We've got a motion. VAN MAGNESS: We've seconded it. SWYTER: Are you ready to on or do you want counsel's make that motion? BURDITT: We don't have time MR. SWYTER: You've only got a week. You got seven days. MS. ZIEGLER: Tuesday, that takes two days to have a meeting. MR. BURDITT: At most two days before if you're going to have a meeting and I don't know DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that we're going to have more, I think you can make a motion. I think you can get the subject matter you want into the warrant article. MR. SWYTER: Okay. MR. BURDITT: And get it presented and get it into the general scope of the warrant; and then if you want to amend it after the fact as long as it's within the perimeters of the guidelines, I think it can be adjusted anywhere right up to town meeting. MS. ZIEGLER: So then maybe say we maybe want to take out the referral to appraised value and not -less than appraised value. MR. BURDITT: I think that's what Bill is MS. ZIEGLER: He's talking about making the caps MR. BROWN: I think once the once you ask to amend one portion of the article on the floor of town meeting, the other whole article is amendable. MR. BURDITT: As long as it's within the intended scope of what your amendment is. MR. BROWN: Yeah. Yeah. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. SWYTER: You're right. MR. BROWN: And that's exactly what we're looking to do. Take the impediment for an amount not less than the appraised value out of there and leave everything else, then let the lawyers fight it out and put it however they want and come back to us. To me that's the simplest easiest way of looking down the road. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Are you ready for the vote? MR. BROWN: Mm-hmm. MR. SWYTER: Let me ask the department, any opinions? MR. RUCKER: Yeah. Well, I guess just a the opinion I guess is MS. ZIEGLER: We still need a minimum amount. MR. RUCKER: Yeah, and what you've done is one half of the operation. You have eliminated the offending article; but as I think I understand this, you still have to have something to use. MS. ZIEGLER: I'd like to put in no less than appraised land value. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 39 1 MR. RUCKER: I think you've only gone 2 halfway. Eliminat e all this then what do you do? 3 MR. BURDITT: Well 4 MR. VAN MAGNE SS: The Chair could 5 take an amendment. 6 MR. BARTLETT: And I guess the only 7 comment I have is I don't di sagree with the intent 8 of taking that out . I have a problem with leaving 9 that other couple of lines i n, however, because I 10 think those other couple of lines really say the 11 same thing. 12 MS. ZIEGLER: I would like to amend 13 it, that we woul=d take an am ount not less than the 14 appraised land val ue. 15 MR. BURDITT: Do we have land value? 16 MR. VAN MAGNE SS: Yes, there is a 17 vacant value. 18 MR. RUCKER: You would have to go out 19 for bid again. 20 MR. BURDITT: Then we would would 21 have to tear it do wn to make it vacant, right? 22 MS. ZIEGLER: No. 23 MR. BURDITT: It's not vacant if we 24 sell it with the b uilding on it. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. RUCKER: Land. MR. VAN MAGNESS: It's establishing I think with the intent of Mollie to establish the vacant value as the basis the floor for accepting a bid. MR. BURDITT: Okay. MR. VAN MAGNESS: On the basis the building may or may not have value to a potential purchaser. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't think town meeting and I don't think it's fair to the ratepayers to give no base figure. MR. VAN MAGNESS: So we have an amendment. I haven't heard a second yet. MR. BURDITT: Second. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Motion made and seconded to amend the original amendment to insert for an amount not less than the vacant land appraised value. MR. SWYTER: As vacant, is that the way we want to say it? MS. ZIEGLER: Vacant land, whatever. MR. BURDITT: Land value because I think DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 41 MS. ZIEGLER: As vacant, land value. MR. BURDITT: No, as vacant to me says we've got to tear it down. MS. ZIEGLER: As if vacant, land value. Land value as if vacant. (Pause) MR. SWYTER: As vacant, what's the other one say? MS. ZIEGLER: This is the appraisal. MR. SWYTER: As if vacant, oh, okay. I'll buy that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Any discussion? MR. BARTLETT: So it would read the remaining would stay if and instead of amount not less than., it would be an amount not less than the appraised value if vacant? MS. ZIEGLER: As if vacant. MR. VAN MAGNESS: As if vacant. MR. BARTLETT: Whatever the lawyers come up with. MS. ZIEGLER: And we can put in brackets the land value, vacant land value or whatever you want to call it, and let them get the wording in right. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 .J 14 15 16 17 18 19 2.0 21 22 23 24 42 MR. VAN MAGNESS: The Chair has an amendment to the original motion. The amendment would be to insert between the word then and the MR. BURDITT: Why don't you read the MR. VAN MAGNESS: As if vacant parentheses land value, so it would read for an amount not less than the, quote, as if vacant, end quote, bracket land value, end bracket. MS. ZIEGLER: Appraised value. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The appraised value. MS ZIE°GLER: The appraised value, appraised land value, whatever it is. MR. BROWN: I think that accomplishes both what we're trying to do, assess the minimum. MS. ZIEGLER: Is that MR. VAN MAGNESS: That's how I had heard the motion. Is that how you want it? MS. ZIEGLER: (Witness nods). MR. BROWN: I'll accept that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Any further discussion on that? MR. SWYTER: No. I'm all set. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: All those in favor of the amended motion signify by raising your right hand. Opposed? Motion passes six, zero, zero. As a result I believe that would make the original motion null and void. MS. ZIEGLER: Does that help, Len? MR. RUCKER: I don't know to be candid with you. MR. BARTLETT: That's what the lawyer said. MR. RUCKER: Yeah, because one of the things is when the lawyers look at it, they are going to play around with it. MS. ZIEGLER: You understand what we're coming at? MR. RUCKER: I understand the intention. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't want to leave a zero value in there. MR. RUCKER: I'm sure it's going to it's let me tell you what's on my mind. Let's assume for the moment that Hodson's bid had been 450,000 clearly over the minimum and I had submitted the rest of the bid so he wasn't kicked DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 44 out. One of the things that didn't happen in here is if you go through the evaluation criteria that you painstakingly laid out, you've got none of that information to do the evaluation. MR. BURDITT: Mm-hmm. MR. RUCKER: So you're kind of I've got a feeling you're going to go through all this and you're still going to come up with air. MR. BURDITT: Isn't that when we could have him in and say it says MR. RUCKER: Yeah, except I guess one of the other observations MS. ZIEGLER: Would this be considered restrictions? MR. RUCKER: One of the questions came up a real long time ago internally and never went any further because it wasn't out of our domain, i't's the town's; but when we were sitting back and looking at restrictions and things like that, we kind of said okay. I had a conversation with our attorneys, this let's assume all these restrictions go in. Are they valid, you know, can the town actually cause them to happen. The answer from our attorneys was no. You know, they can buy DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 as a shell corporation and turn around and resell it. They can escape the whole thing. That's about two hours of a lawyer's time. So some parts of this are kind of squishy. All I know for sure is RMLD is pumping out about $65,000 a year to we're already $65,000 in the hole. And if the building has to be ripped down, you're looking at another probably fifty, $60,000 when you get done. You know, so there is some it's it's getting to the point of diminishing returns to the RMLD. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The question MR. BARTLETT: So there is no misunderstanding here it's certainly not our intent to tear the building down. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Right. MR. BURDITT: Right. MR. BARTLETT: The intent is this article be worded so this is merely establishing a minimum bid of 300,000, in essence we're not going to tear it down. MR. RUCKER: I'm trying to be the devil's advocate here and trying to be on the other side as a bidder. I think if I saw that, I would say okay, I'll bid. The land value is 300,000, I'll DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 bid that. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We're not selling the land. MR. RUCKER: I know, but I think I I don't know. I'm only speculating, there may be a legal argument if your obligation is to MS. ZIEGLER: To me that's our only value is the vacant value. MR. BARTLETT: And that should be clear to the attorney if in fact it we require a different wording that it meet the intent of that motion so be it. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't want us to tear it down and sell it vacant. I don't want to go below the vacant land value. I don't think it's fair to the light department and the ratepayers. MR. BARTLETT: I guess if the attorney felt it was appropriate, I would. MS. ZIEGLER: Put the 300 in. MR. BARTLETT: Take out that whole wording and put in minimum value of $300,000, period, no confusion, so be it. That's the attorney's choice. MS. ZIEGLER: Maybe that's what we DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 47 should do. I don't know. If it has to be 300 instead of minimum land value, that's fine with me. We need to get something in there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We're not presenting this motion. This is a recommendation which we're passing along the line. This was never our motion. This task force never had that motion. MS. ZIEGLER: The light department did. MR. BARTLETT: Somebody has got to submit something. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The Board of selectmen _definitely have to. MR. BURDITT: I think it's the direction of this task force. MS. ZIEGLER: They'll put it on for us. MR. BURDITT: Yeah, I think this task force is to recommend to the Board of Selectmen if they want something to go into the warrant. MR. BARTLETT: Then the selectmen merely see if the wording isn't appropriate legally. MR. BURDITT: The counsel will do that. Board of Selectmen DORIS M. JONES &.ASSOCIATES, INC. 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BARTLETT: This board has to MR. BURDITT: That's right. This is the one that has to spearhead this motion. MR. VAN MAGNESS: And I would agree. I'm not disagreeing with you on it, but we're not going to pick the exact words that are going in this thing. That was my only MR. BURDITT: No. No. No, nor is the Board of Selectmen. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The town counsel. MR. BURDITT: Absolutely. MS. ZIEGLER: As long as we know why we want it done. MR. BARTLETT: We have 300,000 minimum and put the rational how we got to that and then counsel say hogwash, put the $300,000 in there. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Which is fine. MR. BURDITT: Oh, yeah. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Next question is there a possibility I guess I want to ask the department, is there a possibility that this can be marketed instead of open bid or marketed when it's also up for open bid? MR. RUCKER: What we understand is DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 49 1 1 for us, yes; for you, no, you being the town. 2 MR. BURDITT: Go do it. Well, go do 3 it. 4 MS. ZIEGLER: I think we've got to 5 clear that out. 6 MR. BURDITT: Who says you can't. 7 MR. SWYTER: What happens if we do, 8 we go blind . Why don't we advertise it, we take the 9 initiative and advertise it. 10 MR. RUCKER: Why don't we describe 11 some of the things we've done. We made it a point 12 to put in i nstead of minimum legal requirement was 13 only to put it into the Chronicle. We put the 14 notices in every single paper that covers any one of 15 the four to wns. We also sent the information to 16 real estate agents. We sent it to Suburban News. 17 We did ads, you know, saying the property is there. 18 We also did press releases to let people know. 19 MR. VAN MAGNESS: But I'm talking 20 about going to heavy hitting firms that deal with 21 commercial real estate, and they're out there. 22 MR. BURDITT: You mean 23 MR. VAN MAGNESS: There is Hunneman, 24 there is No rdburg, Nor_dbloom. There is Whittier 1 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 10 19 20 21 22 23 24 Partners in Boston. There is a whole bunch of those firms . MR. BROWN: Call Cummings, they'll buy it tomorrow. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sure. You can name a half a dozen real estate firms that deal with this stuff. Now, I guess one of the questions is what happens if we're going and MR. SWYTER: Just to bring this up, I think it's a good point, do the words that are in this article which says subject to the Uniform Procurement Act, Chapter 30B of the General Laws, now-start to restrict that option? MR. RUCKER: As we understand, yes, but I hesitate for you to rely on our advice for some of these questions you're asking. We never explored it because the more restrictive criteria was Chapter 30B, and so that's whatever be focused on to answer some of your questions. And we can move the process along fairly quick I think between Peter and myself, but it's basically getting the two attorneys together and probably Peter and I in a conference room and saying let's systematically lay out what are the options and all the different DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 "2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 51 ways. Now if you have that information back in front of you, that might open up an avenue that you never thought of; but it's awful hard because we're not qualified. Jim and I aren't qualified. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We understand that. MR. RUCKER: We can't answer a lot of your questions. For all I know the attorneys may walk in and say yeah, you can blow the whistle. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let's come up with a recommendation for amending this bylaw if it is possible that would allow this at the discretion of, I guess,-this committee or the RMLD for marketing Lhis thing to go out and actually engage the services of a broker, to attempt to solicit further bids on the property. We can always reject those too. But I mean, is that something the committee is interested in doing or not? I mean, I don't really feel we have had much choice in the bids that we've had, and I'm not sure even changing all the words is going to bring a few more players. it may. I mean, you may get some more players in here when you rebid this thing. MR. BURDITT: Hodson came back in at DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 52 three hundred last time, he's been four hundred to 350. MR. BARTLETT: He's getting a better deal for the people in here. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Seven people took out the packages. MR. RUCKER: The first time we had more than that. Taking it out and bidding it are two different things. MR. BURDITT: They all knew that the base was 450. MS. ZIEGLER: Not the first time. Not the first time. MR. BURDITT: They didn't know, but the second time they knew it was 450. So now, you know, we drop it to 300, what does that do; and I don't know, we've already got bids above the 300. MR. RUCKER: Is it viable that what maybe we should do myself and Peter, Ted Cohen and Ken Barna is just simply sit down and explore all the various avenues; and then, frankly, have a meeting which you have Ted Cohen and Ken Barna here and Peter and myself just so you have all the avenues. In other words, as I understand your DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 reason for pushing town meeting, Apri MR. closes, what, next MR. MR. article in there. 53 is because you need to make it to 1 town meeting. BROWN: That's right, which Tuesday, Bill? BURDITT: Tuesday 8:00. BROWN: You can have a generic MR. RUCKER: You can have a generic article in there which holds your place. MR. VAN MAGNESS: A marker. MR. RUCKER: A marker which holds it I very broadly. MR. BURDITT: It's got to be within' the bounds and whatever. MR. RUCKER: Something to the effect turn it over to sell MR. BURDITT: What you have said. MR. RUCKER: Have the attorneys sit down and do all the process, identify all the various options and meet back with the task force. MS. ZIEGLER: You might even take out the lines referring to Chapter 30B. You might be able to do that. MR. RUCKER: Or they may be able to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 identify some other way and then you can come up with a more specific way that fits within a general very broad general holder in the warrant. That may be a way of MR. BROWN: I think you could hold the article, Bill, by merely putting in the word rescind or amend. Then you're allowing the attorney to hold the article. MR. BURDITT: I don't think so. What I would like to do I think is Len knows where we're coming from, and what we want to see; and we've made the motion. I think if we could have a motion to give Len the option of maybe slightly restructuring it when he meets with the town manager and legal counsel before next Tuesday night, knowing the intents of this. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't think we've clarified the intents. We have only done one motion. I guess, you know, I'd like to see something done with this Uniform Procurement Act. MS. ZIEGLER: If we can do it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: If it could be done and we haven't addressed that. MR. BURDITT: I think Len understands DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that we want to sell the property. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Why don't we take an amendment and take some action on it just to more or less memorialize it. MR. BROWN: Can I throw another side into it? MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yup. MR. BROWN: We were set up to appraise the values that came in, that has not happened. Can we legally do anything beyond that? Can we do anything beyond that? In other words, this motion that we made, are we a legal body to pass on to the selectmen? We were only supposed to pass on recommendations to any bids that came on above the 450. MS. ZIEGLER: I can go to the selectmen and ask them to do that as a person. MR. BROWN: Okay. Fine.. MR. RUCKER: And you're a creature of the selectmen actually and they are a charter. MR. BROWN: That's why I'm asking. MR. BURDITT: I think we had a lot more to do than just review the bids. I think we were set up to DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1.2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. ZIEGLER: Criteria. MR. BROWN: Criteria. MR. BURDITT: Criteria for the bidding and who would move in and who wouldn't move in and what we would want and what would be the values. MR. VAN MAGNESS: I don't think we developed the proposals at all, same two in and out both times; and I'm for trying to get this process more open. MR. SWYTER: I think you're going to have to get beyond the Uniform Procurement Act. MR. BARTLETT: Seeing the motion already passed with reference to Chapter 30B, the procurement act is taken out. It becomes a very generic article that the attorneys can certainly work with I would think. I don't know. MR. BURDITT: But the thing is so sketchy. MR. BARTLETT: It still leaves it to the board and the selectmen. MR. BURDITT: But the selectmen need the Uniform Procurement Act. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Let the lawyers DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 57 1 argue that. 2 MR. BURDITT: I think that's the 3 reason it's in here. 4 MR. BARTLETT: If the lawyers were to 5 come up and say okay, RMLD, sure, you can go ahead 6 and sel l it, that becomes an impediment. If the 7 lawyers come up and say you can't do it, then you've 8 got to follow normal town procedures; then you've 9 got to follow it anyhow whether it's in there or 10 not. 11 MR. BURDITT: I think it's in here 12 because the lawyers got together and said the town 13 needs t o follow the Uniform Procurement Act. 14 MR. BARTLETT: If we want to make a 15 motion to leave it, fine. You can't 16 MR. BURDITT: I'm not sure they can. 17 If the town is selling it I think we've gone 18 through this before. It's all been discussed. If 19 it's a town sale, it's Uniform Procurement Act. If 20 it's RM LD, they probably don't have to; but where 21 it's a 22 MR. BROWN: My memory, Bill, is I 23 think t hat was put in as a general agreement between 24 the two bodies. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: Because not knowing who MR. BROWN: Yeah, I know. MR. BURDITT: Because there is this big legal issue who owns it. They said let's go with the most stringent and the most stringent was MR. RUCKER: Clear title at the end. They are going to want to sign off. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Are there any motions to come before the Chair for any further amendment on the article? MR. SWYTER: Let me make a motion to revise it. Let me delete one, two, three, four, five - the sixth line down, to convey all or any part of -the following described property, and subject to strike the Uniform Procurement Act (Chapter 30B of the General Laws). See where the counsel go with it. They have seen our change. They can comment to our change. MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have a motion made. Is it seconded? MR. BARTLETT: Second. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Motion made and DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 seconded. We're open for discussion. Bill. MR. BURDITT: I think it's been addressed by counsel. Counsel said that the selectmen need to go by the Uniform Procurement Act. You know, the town is selling it, and I think it's still debatable; and I think it's still a possibility the town has to sell it. Therefore, we need the Uniform Procurement Act. MR. SWYTER: Give them an opportunity to look at it. We can amend it. At least they can see what direction we have taken it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Any further discussion? MR. BROWN: And the further would be to take the Board of Selectmen out of it and let the department sell it. MS. ZIEGLER: It's already been turned over to the Board of Selectmen. MR. SWYTER: Then you've got the question of ownership. MR. RUCKER: Technically it's not been turned over to MS. ZIEGLER: Voted to to the care, custody and control. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 60 MR. RUCKER: Yeah, but this is also one of the things that was identified in one of the presentations. Actually, I don't think you ever saw it. It was made to the selectmen in which the commission had not taken the very first step and the whole process is that the commission must take a vote to relinquish the property from its special municipal purpose. That vote was never taken. So it would have had to as we understood it, it would have had to be taken. Let's assume one of these bids satisfied, it was going through the process. MS. ZIEGLER: It would have had to have been taken. MR. RUCKER: It would have had to have been taken just before the sale, but to take the process off it wasn't taken. I still make the suggestion to you that if you do a very general article to sell the building, I mean, I don't know, really general, it would seem that that would give enough time for myself and Peter working with the two and understanding what you're trying to accomplish to do all the necessary legal research, find the options, and you would still have enough DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 time to meet as a task force to see all the various options and then actually come up with much more detailed wording, which I'm assuming town counsel can then continue to modify. And ultimately, what you would wind up with by the time you get to town meeting, you might have something that either deletes 30B or changes the appraisal or authorizes advertisements or whatever. I'm not sure what the all the options are. MS. ZIEGLER: I don't know what kind of article you have to put in next Tuesday. Do you have time to do it between now and then? MR. RUCKER: I would assume you can put in something as simple as, you know, to turn the property over. MR. BURDITT: Post it for 7:00 next Tuesday. MR. RUCKER: Leave all the specifics out of it. MR. BURDITT: Give Peter and town I think Len knows the intent we want. If we were to meet at town hall at seven Tuesday night just to review the review what they might come up with this week DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 63 1 give counsel something to work with. 2 MR. BURDITT: That's what we're 3 trying to do. 4 MR. BROWN: We trying to. 5 MR. SWYTER: We're working much too 6 hard I think. 7 MR. VAN MAGNESS: We still have a 8 motion on the floor. Is there any further 9 discussion sp ecific to this removing the words 10 Uniform Procu rement Act, Chapter 30B of the General 11 Laws? 12 MR. SWYTER: Let me make another 13 modifi.ca,t-i.o.n to this if you don't mind. 14 MR. RUCKER: Was the motion 15 seconded? 16 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. 17 MR. SWYTER: Can I make another 18 motion on thi s actually? 19 MS. ZIEGLER: How about withdrawing 20 your motion? 21 MR. VAN MAGNESS: If the second will 22 do it, we'll write 23 MR. SWYTER: Let's change on a motion 24 of William J. Hughes, Jr. to myself, David M. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 i 1 l 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2, DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 65 1 been anyway, I'll call for the vote. All those 2 in favor? 3 MS. ZIEGLER: I thought it was 4 withdrawn. 5 MR. VAN MAGNESS: No, it hasn't been 6 withdrawn. The Chair didn't hear it withdrawn. 7 I've got a bad ear on the right side. Deaf in one 8 ear, can't hear in the other. Any further 9 discussion? Calling for the vote. All those in 10 favor of deleting the words the Uniform Procurement 11 Act, Chapter 30B of the General Laws, signify by 12 raising their right hand. Opposed? Abstained? 1.3 Vote being five, one, zero. It passes. 14 Any further business? 15 MR. BROWN: Yeah. Go ahead, Bill-. 16 MR. BURDITT: I move that we, I 17 guess, request, I wouldn't say direct, Len to meet 18 with counsel and town manager to draft 19 MS. ZIEGLER: Counsel. 20 MR. BURDITT: Counsel is a better 21 word-- the motion that we have approved tonight to 22 go to town meeting. 23 MR. RUCKER: You don't have to pass a 24 motion. The request is sufficient, Bill. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BURDITT: But we've got we've already got two motions to put on. To direct to say what the motion should be that's going to the selectmen next week. MR. RUCKER: If you schedule if you as a task force schedule another meeting at some point whenever, you let us know. MR. BURDITT: We can overturn what we said tonight. MR. RUCKER: Then as soon as I know, I'll pick up the phone and talk to Peter and say, Peter, we've got to get moving. MS. ZIEGLER: Can we take it to a real estate? MR. BURDITT: Get better words, we have scrambled tonight. MR. BARTLETT: We want an article that you can market, bid, do whatever, what we're thinking. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Okay. Is the intent then that we're going to have a meeting at 7:00 next Tuesday night? And Jim, could you notify Peter tomorrow and see if we can get that posted? MR. BURDITT: At town hall? DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 67 i' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 7.9 20 21 22 23 24 MR. VAN MAGNESS: It would have to be at town hall because Bill is going to be going to the selectmen. MR. BURDITT: I'll be there and somebody might want to hear what the selectmen have to say when we close the warrant. I don't know, maybe nobody will want to know. MS. ZIEGLER: I have to be out of there at 25 after. I'm running a meeting at 7:30. MR. BROWN: Mr. Chairman. MR. BURDITT: I've got a meeting at 7:30 myself. MR SWYTER: So it looks like it's a 7:00 post. MR. BROWN: The other item I would like to discuss as relates to this since we have not had a member of CPDC and we do not have a business member anymore, I would like to have the selectmen restructure the task force and delete those two positions so we can meet a quorum. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is that a motion? MR. BROWN: That is a motion. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Is that seconded? MR. BURDITT: Second. Wait a DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 68 1 minute. Time out. Let me withdraw my second for a 2 minute or maybe we can discuss it. I second it. 3 MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have a motion on 4 the floor and it's been seconded. 5 MR. BURDITT: Discussion? 6 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Yes. 7 MR. BURDITT: You say delete the 8 positions. Can we look to fill the positions 9 because I would still like to have a business member 10 if not a CPDC member. 11 MR. BROWN: The only thing I was 12 looking at 13 MR. BURDITT: You're right. ' 14 MR_._ BROWN: _ The o,nly_ thing_ I was 15 looking at is we have had a difficulty getting a 16 quorum. If we delete those two members, that's two 17 less. We've had one meeting without a quorum and I 18 think the basis of what we've had is here. And to 19 bring anybody on at this stage of the game 20 MR. BURDITT: Yeah, that's true. 21 You're right. 22 MR. BROWN: And again, it does not 23 take effect until July 1. If there is enough 24 1 interest after July 1, you people go ahead and say DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 69 1 we want to add two members back. There has been no 2 business people ex cept the guy t hat wants to buy it. 3 MR. BURDITT: We did have. 4 MR. BROWN: We di d legitimate. 5 MR. BURDITT: We did have. Bill was 6 a member. 7 MR. VAN MAGNESS: This is a 8 recommendation to the selectmen? 9 MR. BROWN: Yeah, this is a 10 recommendation to the selectmen. 11 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Any further 12 discussion? Okay. We have a 13 MR. RUCKER: Can I-ask a housekeeping 14 question? 15 MR. VAN MAGNESS: Sure. 16 MR. RUCKER: You went through this 17 is exactly the sam e package you saw before with some 18 details changed, b ut you did go through a motion to 19 accept the rejecti on of the bids. Have you done 20 that this time? 21 MR. VAN MAGNESS: No, we haven't. 22 We'll definitely g et to that after this one. 23 MS. ZIEGLER: We have a motion on the 24 floor. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. RUCKER: I thought you were going to adjourn. MR. VAN MAGNESS: No. No. No. No. MR. SWYTER: So there is a motion on the floor. I second it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Any more discussion? Are we ready for the vote? All those in favor of not filling the two open seats? MR. BROWN: They're not open. MR. BURDITT: Removing. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Removing and not filling? MR. BROWN: That's right. MR. VAN MAGNESS: The two open seats? All those in favor raise your right hand. Opposed? Motion passes six, zero, zero. MS. ZIEGLER: If there is going to be a special the first night, would you like to put this article on it? MR. BROWN: Definitely. MR. BURDITT: No. I'd rather have it on the annual. MS. ZIEGLER: It becomes effective right away. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II 1^ 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BROWN: If it is on the special, it becomes in effect right away. MS. ZIEGLER: Because the assessor is going to be looking for money, and we don't know what we're going to do. MR. BURDITT: Put it on both. MS. ZIEGLER: The special hasn't opened yet. MR. BURDITT: That's what I'm saying. Put it on Tuesday night. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Next order of business It would appear we should accept the report from RMLD dated February 6, 1995 on the sale of real p.rop_erty. Chair would like to have a motion. MR. BARTLETT: So moved. MS. ZIEGLER: I move the bids MR. VAN MAGNESS: We have so moved. MS. ZIEGLER: I second it. MR. VAN MAGNESS: Seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor of accepting the report from RMLD relative to their February 6, 1995 memo rejecting the bids so signify by raising your right hand. Opposed? Motion passes six, zero, zero. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC. DORIS M. JONES & ASSOCIATES, INC.